Stickman Readers' Submissions June 4th, 2018

I Keep Six Honest Serving Ladyboys

They taught me all I knew.  Their names are Why and What and When and How and Where and Who.

The title and opening to this submission some of you will recognise is a nod to Rudyard Kipling’s Six Honest Men poem.  For those of you who don’t know my profession I’m a Computer Scientist.  Kipling’s poem is useful in some of the work I do and will prove useful in this submission.  Kipling’s poem was the first thing that came to mind after I read Sidney’s submission “Been With a Ladyboy?”  My submission here is a response piece of sorts.  I have decided not to go through each of Sidney’s arguments from his piece explicitly refuting central points or finding mistakes and explaining why but rather I will present six stories from my experiences with the ladyboys of Pattaya to present my case that there is more to this puzzle than meets the eye and more to think about and analyse when it comes to us men who are attracted to and/or have sex with transsexuals – people born male that take female hormones and now present as physically as female.  At the end is a link to a short lecture by male to female transsexual Nina Arsenault which is a must view so please take the time to watch that as well.

He Clinic Bangkok

So here we go, Sidney. I have been with many ladyboys since 2012 but I have kept just six.  Each of them I have been attracted to and have kept around long-term for various reasons.  Reasons I will discuss openly in this submission.  I have not during this time been with a man who is masculine or who looks or acts like a man.

Let me begin with Ladyboy Why.  Her name is Wawa.

Why did I decide to have sex with ladyboy Wawa?  Why was I attracted to her?  Why have I kept going back to her since 2014?

CBD bangkok

Let me tell you a little about ladyboy Wawa.  We met for the first time in 2014 at Pook Bar in Soi Buakhao.  Wawa was 20 years old and I was 35.  At the time Wawa did not have breasts and had only just started taking female hormones.  My attraction to her was not overwhelming at first sight and this was due to her flat chest and somewhat masculine face that had not yet been changed by the powerful effects of female hormones.  I’m 6f2” tall and Wawa is 6f2” tall as well in heels.  If I was a homosexual I suspect I might have found Wawa more attractive when we first met given her more masculine appearance.  Whilst my initial reaction was not overly enthusiastic due to Wawa’s look, upon talking to Wawa I recognised within the space of a few short minutes that I was talking with a person who had a beautiful heart and this is why I decided to have sex with her.  I remember thinking to myself – this is a really kind and caring person with a beautiful, kind gentle soul.  A type of person I had just never met before ever in my life back in the western world.  I was very attracted to Wawa’s heart and soul.  I went upstairs with her to the short time room and we had sex.  The first time was OK but it wasn’t great as it felt like I had just had sex with a man and that was due to Wawa’s lack of breasts, very short time on female hormones.  Wawa and I kept in touch and over the last 4 years she has taken a lot of female hormones, had breast surgery and now looks like an incredibly beautiful (but very tall) woman at age 24.  So beautiful in fact that I can’t believe it’s actually the same person.  I sent her a photo recently that was taken of us together back in 2015 at Pook Bar in Soi 6 and even she cannot believe how she has changed since that time due to the effects of the female hormones.  Now Wawa is outwardly beautiful as well as having the same beautiful heart and soul.  Whilst many genetic women are outwardly beautiful I have never met one ever in my life that has the inner beauty of Wawa.  A deeply respectful person as well.  She posted a video on her old Facebook page a while back at her birthday when her friends made her a cake and she was very appreciative and gave a deep Thai wai.  As an atheist and a scientist I know evolution via natural selection is why we’re all here and so I’m deeply skeptical of religion in general but I must say that Buddhism in particular (whilst being yet another ‘ism’) is a religion that can bring out some very special things in it’s devotees.  As I write this submission I am on my second day in Pattaya.  In fact last night I met up with Wawa at the Pattaya Beer Garden.  We had a great chat and caught up after 9 months of me not being here in Thailand.  She is as beautiful as ever with the same kind heart that drew me to her originally four years ago.  I remarked to her a while ago that we had never had an argument.  That’s rare for someone like me as I seem to have a way of irritating people with my ideas and the way I am.  Wawa truly has a calming influence on me and we work exceptionally well together.  That’s why I have kept coming back to her over the years.  It’s rare to find such a caring, gentle soul.  I certainly have not found one in the form of a genetic female and over the years I have been with and have known many of them.  The very thought of comparing in my mind my ex girlfriends vs. Wawa there is simply no comparison – Wawa comes out the winner by a very large margin.  In my conversation with Wawa last night I remarked to her that we value each other for our personhood and she understood immediately and intuitively what I had just said.  Truly valuing someone for their personhood – for who they are and not for what they are, I have found is something only men are capable of doing.  At no point have I ever heard Wawa nag about anything or utter such phases as “what have you done for me lately?”  A phrase we so commonly hear uttered from the lips of the western female who let us admit by her very nature remains the core reason we all came to Thailand in the first place.  Consider Newton’s third law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object.  Genetic western female actions – bitch, nag, complain, demean, belittle, demand, extract, suck life out of…Male reaction – take flight: destination Pattaya Thailand.  Whilst on flight – open mind and consider alternative option whilst there – eg the third gender.  The ladyboys of Thailand.

Let’s move on to Ladyboy What.  Her name is Som.

What makes Som so interesting?  What is the nature of our friendship?

Ladyboy What is very interesting to me.  We met for the first time in 2012 at So What Bar in Soi 6.  Som was 28 at the time and I was 33.  A closer match in terms of age.  Som was the ladyboy that convinced me through her gestures, speech, movement and responses that the brain of a transsexual is different to the brain of a male or female.  Brain scans have indicated this as well and there have been scientific studies done on this subject that back this up which you can Google.  I knew intuitively the instant I spoke with Som for the first time I was not talking with a person that possessed a stereo-typically male brain or a stereo-typically female brain – hers was different.  Somewhere in between.  The human brain is a research subject of interest to me in my computing work as the holy grail for us computer scientists is to be able to create a Blade Runner type replicant – a genetic machine more human than human or a silicon-based robot with a neural net CPU with many of the capabilities of a human.  Think love dolls capable of being the perfect sexual partner.  The human brain is remarkable for the processing it is capable of whilst using very little power – the equivalent of a 20 watt light-bulb.  There are fields of computing of great importance to humanity that are intensely interested in designing computer systems to use much less power.  Part of my interest in the ladyboys of Pattaya is I see them as people that science could learn much from due to their different brains and science needs to learn much more about the human brain and how it is capable of such extraordinary processing if we are ever to design the perfect love doll or a terminator type android but I digress.  Som was a highly experienced bar girl, had breasts, a sharp business mind and a respectful attitude.  A deeply religious person.  I remember thinking to myself after our first sexual experience together that most of the practicing religious people I know are in actuality practicing hypocrites and here I have found a Thai ladyboy of deep belief and conviction determined to live her life doing good things for the benefit of others whilst knowing full well that her job puts her in conflict with what many others would consider an appropriate occupation for a religious person.  Som is special to me partly because she was one of the very first ladyboys I went with back in 2012.  She wasn’t my first but we had a great connection right from the very beginning.  Som could easily run a bar and would make a great mamasan now that she is ageing out of being a bargirl.  She knows her bargirl days are numbered due to her age and the difficulty she has had in recent years finding customers.  Of all the ladyboys I know Som is the only one I would trust to run a bar.  If I wanted to open a bar here in Pattaya she would be my choice of mamasan without a moment’s hesitation.  She has many fine qualities as a businessperson.  Her and I would make a formidable business partnership.  She has great drive to succeed and there has been many a time whilst I have been back in the western world that I have considered contacting her and giving her a bit of start-up capital to start a bar but we all know the risks and troubles of opening yet another bar in Pattaya and where that could lead me.

wonderland clinic

Next is Ladyboy When. Her name is Benz.  That’s a name I will remember for the rest of my life given the experiences we have had together.  It was December 2013 in Soi 6 when I met ladyboy Benz for the first time.  It was my second trip to Pattaya after a year in the western world dreaming of getting back here.  I was walking down Soi 6 when Benz approached me for the first time.  I was completely overwhelmed by her feminine beauty.  She was quite literally the most beautiful ladyboy I had ever seen in my life.  I was hesitant however as I thought she looked very young.  She told me she was 20 so I thought OK a 14 year age difference – that’s not so bad-looking around here at some of these other couplings.  She took me into the Full Moon Bar where she worked and we had a drink together.  I couldn’t wait to go upstairs with her.  We did and we had a fantastic sexual experience.  Literally one of the best sexual experiences of my life.  Benz it was obvious had been taking a lot of female hormones and exuded a femininity to a level that I had not witnessed before in a ladyboy and had never before witnessed in a genetic female.  Benz I believe never went through male puberty.  She had been taking hormones before puberty hit which is why she was able to avoid at least some of the problems encountered by other transsexuals that need cosmetic work done later to resolve – eg chin, jaw and other feminisation surgery.  Seasoned ladyboy lovers know the more female hormones a ladyboy takes the less the equipment down stairs operates so this experience was definitely an overwhelmingly feeling of being with a stunningly beautiful woman – someone a middle class, medium status, medium earning man like myself certainly had never been with before what with female hypergamy and all that ruling me out.  I was completely overwhelmed by Benz and ended up falling in lust with her at first and then to the detriment of my financial health I fell in love with her.  This of course shocked me that I could fall in love with a ladyboy given I had only ever fallen in love with genetic women in the past.  Over the years I sent Benz a bit of money here and there when I was back home in the West, something I vowed never to do.  It wasn’t a lot of money.  It amounted to a few thousand dollars over five years but it set a dangerous precedent that I wasn’t comfortable with and I stopped doing it.  Of note and unsurprisingly to us seasoned Pattaya players, my relationship with Benz has not been the same since I stopped occasionally sending her money.  Even though I knew deep down from the beginning she was probably only really interested in me for my money I wanted desperately to believe that wasn’t the case.  On my next trip I asked Benz to let me see her ID card as we walked into The Mercure Hotel together and I memorised her date of birth.  Turns out she was not 20 when we first went together.  She had only just turned 18 two months prior.  This made me angry knowing firstly that she lied to me about her age and secondly that I had been with a person I considered too young and certainly would not have gone with had I knew her real age.  I didn’t say anything to her about it however but mentally it was a mark against her and a mark against me as well.  How could I have been so stupid and not checked her ID myself personally on day one?  What type of person had I become having had sex with such a young impressionable person?  She has accrued more marks against her over the years due to her requests for money, her lies, her not looking after something I valued that I gave her to look after for me as well as various messages she had sent to me over the years which only seemed to occur when she needed money or wanted something she couldn’t get without my help.  I learned a valuable lesson dealing with Benz.  One I already knew from my days dealing with genetic women but it’s a lesson I needed to learn again dealing with the ladyboys of Pattaya.  That lesson is: looks can be deceiving.  Whilst being stunningly beautiful her heart was not as beautiful.  Her character needed development.  She was very high maintenance, would spend any money and more given to her maintaining her appearance with cosmetic surgery and the like and had serious trust issues with foreigners (which of course comes with the territory in her profession).  The sex with Benz was unbelievably great.  There’s another lesson here about the power of female youth and beauty at the age of 18 even if that is in the form of a person that was originally born male.  I was not driven to her by her masculinity – of which I detected next to none.

On to Ladyboy How.  Another Som.  A highly manipulative individual who’s character I recognised instantly when we first met.  Her character could be easily seen whilst peering into her eyes, whilst looking at her face and definitely through her actions.  I had read a book when I was 17 called The 48 Laws of Power and had reread it a number of times since.  The book is a bestseller, selling over 1.2 million copies in the United States, and is the most popular book with prison inmates.  Amoral, cunning, ruthless, and instructive,The 48 Laws of Power is the definitive manual for anyone interested in gaining, observing, or defending against ultimate control.  In the book Robert Greene and Joost Elffers distilled three thousand years of the history of power into 48 essential laws by drawing from the philosophies of Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, and Carl Von Clausewitz and also from the lives of figures ranging from Henry Kissinger to P.T. Barnum.  The moment I met Som I knew I was dealing with a calculating, shrewd, seasoned bargirl who had the game of power down pat even at her relatively young age.  My guard immediately went up dealing with her but at the same time I was fascinated but not surprised that someone like her would be working in the Pattaya environment.

How was I drawn to Som?  How many bargirls like Som exist in Pattaya?  How does this environment bring out these traits in a person?

I was walking back to my condo at City Garden when I met Som who was working at the Party Bar directly opposite the back entrance to The Avenue shopping centre.  From the moment I saw her I knew.  She had a look in her eyes that said she was deceptive and not to be trusted in any way.  I found her interesting though as I knew within a minute of speaking with her that I was dealing with a highly manipulative individual and I wanted to find out more about her and what makes her tick.  I figured there must be many bargirls like her in Pattaya but had not yet came across any with her degree of skill.  Skill developed naturally in this environment.  I figured before I even came here back in 2012 that Pattaya would have to have many bargirls like Som but to my surprise have only come across her as the prime example of one.  We have seen each other a few times here and there over the years since 2015 but I kept her firmly at arm’s length as I knew her lies and manipulations were just too good.  I told her flat-out on the first night – this is who I am, this is what I can offer, we come together, have a great time, I pay you a reasonable price for your services and we’re both happy.  Well – I had to repeat that little speech a number of times over the years as she tried on her manipulative bullshit with me so I have avoided her for the most part.  Does she belong as one of my six serving honest ladyboys?  Maybe not.  But she is honest about one thing – her need for money so I will leave her in here.  I thought to myself this bargirl will find herself a westerner and milk him for all he’s worth.  Photographs I have seen over the years posted by her to her social media profile has only proven my initial instinct about her to be absolutely spot on.  She displays a lot of solid gold jewellery given to her by her western sponsor.  I will not judge this man.  I suspect that just like myself he has come to the same conclusion that he is better off spending a little on his bargirl to save a lot by staying single in his own country and avoiding the catastrophe of divorce down the track.  Good luck to him.  I wish him well.  The Pattaya environment – a place where money is exchanged in return for sexual services can bring out the darker side of human emotions and behaviour.  Both from us westerners and the Thai bargirls.  I mean think about it – the younger, sexier, more attractive and nicer the bargirls are to us westerners the more money they can make but they’re competing in a competitive environment which can be cut throat especially during low season when they’re not earning much.  According to Christian tradition the seven deadly sins are: envy, gluttony, greed or avarice, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath.  I see a lot of those seven deadly sins around the traps here particularly greed, lust and sloth.

Ladyboy Where is Yaya.

Where did we meet and where did this go?

Yaya and I first met outside the Whiskey Bar in Soi 6 back in December 2013.  6f2” tall in heels and wearing a large straw hat.  Yaya and I started off OK but things went downhill over time.  We kept in contact over the years and we have had video calls a number of times whilst I was back home in Australia.  Communication was a bit of a problem though even given I speak some Thai and am fluent in English.  We had troubles understanding one another.  Yaya has some serious issues to deal with.  I don’t think she actively works in the nightlife anymore and has moved on to an office job.  I think what happened with her was she fell for me to some degree and whilst I was nice to her and treated her well she wanted more than I was able to give emotionally.  Maybe I brought up feelings in her that she had not felt before or maybe it was something else but each call I had with her I felt she was trying to emotionally manipulate me and I left each call feeling bad.  Life is too short to deal with that kind of thing so I let things just naturally fade away over time.  I don’t like it when someone intentionally triggers negative emotions in me for their self-interested reasons.  I walk away from people like that no matter who they are or what they represent.  I have walked away from high level CEO’s and bankers due to this.  I really hate when somebody intentionally sets out to manipulate me emotionally with the goal of making me feel bad for their own self-interest.

Lastly allow me to Introduce Ladyboy Who – the last of my six honest serving ladyboys.  Amy is an American transsexual working here in Pattaya.  She stands out with her white skin, perfect English and American accent.  She has the potential to be a great leader in the trans community.  No doubt about that.  I met her for the first time in 2016 at Fantasy Lounge in Soi Buakhao.  What drew me to her was her look and perfect English.  I thought to myself wow – now here’s a transsexual I could get to know, have a great conversation with and learn a lot from.  So I did.  We have had some great chats over the years and I have discussed various Pattaya business ideas with her that would have me working on advocacy and film work with the ladyboys of Pattaya.  I learned from Amy that it is indeed possible for a westerner to immerse themselves in the Pattaya environment, learn the language fluently, gain the trust of the ladyboys and work alongside them.  I learned that some of my film ideas have great potential here to help a lot of men from all over the world whilst helping the ladyboys as well.  I learned that growing up in a small, rural town in America as a transsexual is difficult and it was through this difficulty and adversity that lead to her coming here to Pattaya – a spiritual home where being a transsexual is easier, where being around ones own kind brings kinship and a place for belonging and acceptance which is what all the ladyboys need.  It’s up there very high on their list along with money which is number one here in Thailand.

So completes the story of my six honest serving ladyboys.  I will end the story by letting you all know that I keep but one honest serving man.  A childhood friend who has been with me from the very beginning.  We grew up together, we went to school together, we came of age together, we shared many great times in the bars and clubs of Melbourne with the ladies and many bad times as well.  I brought my one honest serving male friend to Pattaya back in December 2015 and his experiences here in Thailand are instructive. My friend is an Australian Albanian.  He has traditionalist parents and was brought up as a Muslim.  Whilst he appears, sounds and engages in activities that many Aussies do he has rather conservative views.  He hates gays.  He hated ladyboys.  Claims both need to be beaten.  I introduced him to Wawa in Soi 6 and he had a look of shock on his face.  He didn’t know what to say or how to act or what to do.  His upbringing and heterosexuality runs deep with him.  Very deep.  He obviously felt a great deal of conflict between his attraction to females and what he saw when he looked at and met some of the ladyboys of Pattaya.  We kept walking down Soi 6.  I told him there are many females here and that ladyboys are in the minority and I am not one to judge him so do whatever he likes – he’s a free single man after all.  He pointed to a woman he found to be very attractive.  He said to me – can you go and ask her if she’s a real woman just so i’m sure?  I looked at her and knew she was a ladyboy but we went up to her and I spoke to her in Thai.  I asked her if she was a woman or a ladyboy.  She said she’s a ladyboy.  I told my friend.  He was shocked and internally very conflicted again.  We kept walking.  The next day he made me take him to the Thai Airways office to change his flight to the first flight back to Melbourne.  The next morning he was gone.  He even left the door of the condo wide open whilst I slept.  Would I be friends with him if I met him today and did not grow up with him?  Almost certainly not.  But he’s a mate so what can you do?

Sidney – there’s a probable reason why your Thai massage girl was surprised that you didn’t go with the ladyboy.  Why she was quite puzzled that you couldn’t conceivably go with a katoey.  It’s because women know intuitively and by experience that men, heterosexual men are drawn to female youth and beauty like moths to a flame.  Thai women know the ladyboys present an image of female beauty that is impossible for a genetic female to ever attain and can be absolutely irresistible to a man.  As Mark Renton remarked to Francis Begbie in the movie Trainspotting when he got caught out by a transsexual at a nightclub “let’s face it, it could have been wonderful”.  Wonderful the experience truly is!  Many a heterosexual man has gone with a ladyboy here in Thailand and many more will in the future forever more.  Few to none of these men, myself included would seek out relations with masculine who look and act like men.  Homosexual men are drawn to masculinity not femininity.  The male instinct towards female youth, fertility and beauty is so strong that a person born a man who takes female hormones and presents as more beautiful than a genetic female is more alluring to many a heterosexual male than a genetic female.  More alluring physically and more alluring emotionally as well because the man instantly recognises they’re dealing with a person that is up for sex on the same level that they are, can understand them and appreciate them more than a genetic female ever could.  A person they can be authentic with and share a peaceful time with.  That’s the case with me and it’s the case with other men I know who are into ladyboys.  We see them and value them for the look of a female and this overpowers our other instincts that tell us “it’s a man”.  I have made friends with older ladyboys to prove to myself that this is the case – ladyboys in their late 40s and early 50s who I am not attracted to because their female appearance is gone.  Their very female appearing youth and beauty – the signs of fertility that us men are so drawn to are well gone.  It’s an incredible experience being with a young, beautiful ladyboy but I know that if I stayed with one long term my attraction to that person would wane.  Maybe not so much with Wawa though as our bond is so strong I would hope that I could overcome this.

What happens Sidney is the first time we go with a ladyboy we men must make a fateful decision.  When we meet a ladyboy that we’re attracted to due to her feminine appearance – do we take a chance and go with her or do we not?  It’s a very difficult choice for the rational male and one that must be made very carefully for a whole host of reasons the most important of which are the majority of genetic western women will not want a man that has been with a ladyboy before.  I will repeat that: the majority of genetic western women will not want a man that has been with a ladyboy before.  I have proven this myself on my own Tinder profile back in Australia where I was very open about being with ladyboys in Thailand.  I was met with a lot of rejection.  There is a reason women as a group don’t like men who have sex with men or men who have sex with transsexuals and it all comes back to her selfish, self-interested reasons.  As women view us men as utilities they know full well that a man that cannot be controlled sexually is a man that cannot be kept in service to her or be relied upon for long-term provision and support neither financially nor emotionally.  This is a highly risky situation for the female to be with such a man as he could at any time go off and live a care free life of much less responsibility, much less stress and much less work with much less nagging, complaining and requests and at much less cost financially by being with a ladyboy (ladyboys are cheaper than women over the long term due to their non reproductive capability).  Obviously a man with dangerous alternative options is unacceptable to the vast majority of women who one must judge by their actions – actions which indicate 100% that it is high status, high earning, wealthy men that they are most attracted to.  The ladyboys can develop this attraction to high status men as well I might add due to being treated so well when they’re young and beautiful by these male suitors but I do not believe that ladyboys have the same hypergamous instinct built in that females do.  This is a learned thing with the ladyboys and they’re not anywhere near as adept at utilising it as a weapon in the same way that genetic females can and do repeatedly when dealing with men.

I will leave you with my slightly modified version of Kipling’s poem that I think highlights the situation us men that seek the company of ladyboys and in and the situation the genetic women are in that we have successfully avoided dealing with (eg parts I have bolded) on this less road less traveled path:

I keep six honest serving-ladyboys
(They taught me all I knew);
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who.
I send them over land and sea,
I send them east and west;
But after they have worked for me,
I give them all a rest.
I let them rest from nine till five,
For I am busy then,
As well as breakfast, lunch, and tea,
For they are hungry ladyboys.
But different folk have different views;
I know a person small
She keeps ten million serving-men,
  Who get no rest at all!
She sends em abroad on her own affairs,
From the second she opens her eyes
One million Hows, Two million Wheres,
  And seven million Whys!

All the best Gentlemen!

The Pretender

PS: If I may remind and draw everyone’s attention to this fascinating lecture by male to female transsexual Nina Arsenault which is very instructive and a must view for those of us trying to understand the male attraction to transsexuals: “The eroticization of M2F transsexuals by heterosexual men (semiotics lecture)”:

The author can be contacted at :

nana plaza