Yet Another Response to HCG and Loser’s Paradise
After all that has been said and written by and about Half Chinese Girl (HCG) I felt compelled once again to comment on this site. I would like to start out by asking all the readers to step outside their perspective for a moment. Imagine yourself as seeing the Pattaya, Nana, Cowboy, Patpong, or Phuket nightlife scene for the first time. Now the hard part, also imagine that you are uninterested in the girls, and only look at the men you find there. What is your overall impression of them? Remember that if a group has even a sizable minority with a particular trait, then it is normal human intellectual and emotional shorthand to stereotype. Now tell the truth; aren’t they losers? I say this having partaken of the scene and being old, fat, and bald (as advertised and as is sufficient for HCG to classify me as a loser). So where are we in disagreement with HCG? I posit that we disagree when she includes the Stickman readership in her stereotype of the Thailand monger. I seriously doubt that most of the men she has seen mongering in Thailand have even heard of the site. I have some doubts about the average Thailand monger’s ability to read, and much more doubt about their willingness to do so. Since very little of a salacious nature is allowed on this site, the average monger would have zero interest in reading it.
Now let us look at what seems to be HCG’s definition of a loser. I might be wrong here, so, if you are reading this HCG, please tell me if I am. Her definition of loser is any male that is not young, physically fit, and “hot”. You all know the guy she is talking about; in his twenties or early thirties, works out at the gym or compulsively jogs, professional career (or in some way makes a good income), and attractive to HCG and other young girls. Most young girls would include older guys as non-losers if they are wealthy or famous (or both); rock stars, Brad Pitt, Donald Trump, George Clooney, etc come to mind. If you do not fit either of these descriptions, then you are a hopeless loser. Under that description most men every where are losers. (It is really not a big deal to have a young girl think you are a loser; most of them do, even if they don’t say it to your face. Get used to it. It will get worse as you age.) I think this is a typical young girl attitude. It does not mean she is not intelligent, or well educated. It just means she is incredibly naïve, and has had too little life experience to soften her very judgmental opinions. Most of us reading Stickman have logged a quite a few laps around the sun, and have had enough failures in life to have more compassion for all the other losers. That is called maturity. It takes time, so don’t castigate HCG too much; we have been where she is. However, what she needs to think about is that she has not been where we are.
HCG says she has no problem with the P4P scene, and wants to make no judgments, but hates the delusions that Thailand mongers labor under. She thoughtfully lists them explicitly:
Delusion 1: Thailand is a sex paradise
HCG states that if we weren’t losers we could get way more sex in the west without paying for it; therefore Thailand is not a sex paradise. She is correct and incorrect at the same time. I say a sex paradise is whatever works for you. One man’s paradise is another man’s desert. As to HCG’s prejudice against men who “pay for it”, my life experience has shown that the man always pays for it; either up front or even more at the back end.
If we were in our early 20’s (not old and not bald), physically fit (not fat), “hot” (to her tastes), and employed at a good professional wage, then yes we could get laid a lot in the west. We can’t all be male models. At 50+ I am not likely to score with HCG or her compatriots. (However, I believe that my age would be immaterial if I had a seven figure income.) So, she might say, stick to your own age group. I would, but the numbers of available western women in my age group that are still interested in a sexual relationship are very few. Look at the dating web sites and you will see that even women who are 49 will not date a man over 50. They would be admitting they are old and or are willing to date a loser. (This loser label thing may be more of a woman thing than a young girl thing.) So, if I limit myself to the west, I am forced to date only in the over 50 pool of women; fair enough really. However, most single western women over 50 are not interested in a relationship; they have their lives neatly ordered and need a man like a fish needs a bicycle. I have 6 sisters and 5 of them pretty much gave up on sex, and lost interest in any kind of a relationship with a man, sometime in their 40s. They don’t understand why I have not.
Even if western women 50+ were interested in a sexual relationship, I am not interested in them. And it is not because of their physical appearance. I dare say I know a lot more 50+ women on a personal basis than does HCG, and I have known many of them longer than HCG has been alive. Most of them started out as fairly nice people. As they have aged they have become bitter, arrogant, opinionated, bossy, dismissive of men, and nasty. (I tried not to sugar coat it too much.) Feminism in the US has long ago passed from any quest for equality, and now seeks total female domination of society. Too many women think to have equality; women must be on top in everything, and put men under subjugation. Men who know this, and say it, are not angry, delusional, misogynists; they are merely accurate observers of reality.
If HCG wants to see delusional people, just get to know a few 50+ single women in the west. They think they are goddesses, entitled to worship from men for no other reason than that they have a vagina. One particular woman I have know for about 40 years says any man that would get her approval would have to be very wealthy (so she would never have to work again), full head of hair, and very fit. She is fat, gray, and wrinkled. And by the way, she is not interested in sex. In exchange for sharing all that he has with her this ideal guy would merely be getting to bask in the glory of her presence. This is the ultimate delusion of grandeur.
In one History Channel show on the sexual revolution of the 60’s, they interviewed a very nice intelligent gray haired lady that had worked as a San Francisco call girl in the 60’s and early 70’s. They asked her if she ever enjoyed it. Her response was that she was no orgasm freak, but that she often enjoyed it. Then they asked what it was men wanted from the transaction. Her response was men wanted pleasure, without being degraded for it. I think this goes to the heart of the problem with western women; a guy can get laid, but he will have to kiss a woman’s ass and crawl on his belly first. In comparison, Thailand, and South East Asia (SEA) overall, is a sexual paradise for men. This is not strictly in the P4P segment. In daily interaction with SEA women, through out society, I found they do not automatically dismiss you as a loser just because you are older. They still do their part of the mating dance by indicating interest, or by accepting a man’s interest as a complement while letting you know they are not interested, without degrading the man. The complaints I have heard from women living in SEA clearly indicate that it is a sexual desert for western women. Don’t you wonder why that is so if western women are the ideal of beauty?
Delusion 2: Thai women are beautiful
The judgment of the attractiveness of Thai women has been adequately discussed.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Delusion 3: Thailand is more sexually permissive than the west
HCG is absolutely correct that the west is much more sexually permissive than Thailand (or IMO in Asia in general). Is this a good thing? HCG labels western men in Thailand as losers because they often marry a whore. However, she points out that a western girl that you might marry would have had many sexual escapades, with a lot of men. (Since they were all hot young guys, and it was just casual sex for pleasure, it is OK.) The difference in her mind is that the western girl is morally superior because she doesn’t ask for a cash payment. In other words; a slut is morally superior to a whore. This judgment is murky at best. Is a woman forced by circumstances to have sex with multiple men in exchange for cash in order to support herself, her children, or her family, less moral than a woman who has sex with lots of guys just for her own pleasure? Or is a man morally degraded if he pays a woman for her time and services; and thereby helps her feed her children? Once again, in HCG mind, morality comes down to whether cash was overtly exchanged on a transaction by transaction basis. I choose not to make moral judgments of others; especially when I do not know all the facts, and I almost never know them.
HCG is also correct that the wider Thai culture looks down on the OPEN display of whore mongering. This is true as much in Thailand as in the west. Guys using the services of prostitutes in Thailand are truly delusional if they think otherwise (another point HCG has correct.) The key should be to use reasonable discretion. Your private business should remain private. Stick has frequently pointed out that showing up with a BG in tow to a regular Thai function will lose you all your Thai friends. You will not be looked on as a winner, even if she is Miss Universe level beautiful. Use some common sense.
On my second trip to Thailand, many years ago, I experienced something that makes me believe HCG’s story about being accosted on the plane. I was seated next to a young western woman who was making her first trip to Thailand. She had a few questions (she was a little nervous about taking a solo trip to an exotic land). Sitting across the aisle from her was an older western man (about my age) and his younger Thai wife. He proceeded to regale this poor girl with unwanted (I assume) tales of his whore mongering all over Thailand, and told her that his wife would be visiting her family upcountry while he was in Bangkok and Pattaya doing whores. They took this trip at least once a year. He tried to draw me into this tawdry locker room discussion. I wanted to reach across the aisle and slap some sense, or decency, into him, but it would have done no good. Why do western men lose their brains as soon as they get on the plane to Thailand?
I would like to inform the readership and HCG that sexual delusion is not the sole providence of men. The Dominican Republic has a thriving tourism sector catering to western women looking for “romance” while on vacation. Try out the dr1.com web site and you will read the same advice to, “enjoy it for what it is, but don’t think of bringing it home” as you get about Thailand. However, the advice is to women. The men that work the tourist trade are called skankies. They are very charming, hard bodied, young, and can dance very well. The women are usually what you would expect. I think HCG would call them losers; very overweight, loud, drunk women with no social skills and with nothing to recommend them but having a lot more money than the average Dominican. We live in the age of equality. I saw it all over the place, but I managed not to be judgmental. They weren’t hurting me. I just wondered how these guys were able to perform under such negative conditions. A guy can’t fake it; while I assume most TBGs do. I assume Viagra was involved. I would suggest that these women mongers work much harder than the average male Thailand monger to convince themselves that it is love, and not cash, in which their vacation amour is interested. Delusion can be what you need to get you through the day.
The issue of perceptions
HCG has had problems in Thailand where she is perceived to be a prostitute because she is a young Asian woman with an older white man (her father). Or that she is assumed to be available just because she looks Thai. Let me tell her that she does not have to be in Thailand for this to happen. This is the one issue that I am coming to see as a true harm caused to others by consenting adults exchanging cash for sex. It is also another reason to get pissed at all the guys that think being in Thailand means there are no rules. You are hurting others when you flaunt your activities.
I am married to a younger Filipina. I have gotten used to the hate stares and comments made to me from angry middle aged women (redundant phrase), and even from some young guys. I have been called a pedophile while out in public with my wife. She was 25 when we married. How does that make me a pedophile? Only in the west is homosexuality deemed a lifestyle choice, but a man and a woman with an age difference greater than X years falling in love are perverts and whores. Of course if you are an older woman with a younger man, then you are a Cougar, and “You go girl!”
Last Saturday my wife and I were out at a dance club. We had taken a young Filipina friend of my wife’s that has only been here for 6 months, and who was raised rather strictly Catholic (as was my wife). She had never been to a dance club, so she wanted to come with us. Her husband could not come. So, I walked into the place with two very attractive young Asian women. We found a table, ordered drinks, left our stuff on the table, and the three of us went to dance. When we got back to the table a young western couple had sat down at our table (the women fit HCG’s ideal of beauty; blonde, blue eyed, and large breasted). They asked if this was our table. I answered yes, but that they were welcome to join us. A little while later my wife and I got up to dance. When we got back to the table the young couple was gone and my wife’s friend was very upset. While we were dancing, the woman had asked her, “How much was the deal he made for the two of you?” When told that we were married, and that she was a friend, the woman said, “No way!” My wife’s friend then asked, “What makes it impossible for you to believe that a woman could love an older man?” I am still angry. It is one thing to speculate, in the privacy of your own mind, if a woman is a prostitute. It is another thing to walk up to her and ask how much. This was not in some strip joint or low class dive. It was a nice downtown dance club in a good section of a large US city. Yet the perception was; an older man with a young Asian woman = customer and whore. Also note that this type of assumption is just as likely to be made by a woman as by a man. What they say to me is like water off a duck’s back. My wife and her friend have much more tender feelings.
HCG has said she has experienced the same mistaken judgment made about her by older white guys in Thailand. Yet she turns around and does the same to others. How does she know the older white guy with the sexy young Asian girl at the breakfast table is not man and wife? Can she look at them and know what their relationship is, and how they truly feel about each other? I have no problem with her generalizing to come to conclusions on this site, but when specific people are involved she could have more empathy, and give them the benefit of a doubt. The same admonition applies to the white men that are in Thailand, see a young Asian girl, and assume she is a prostitute. Think with your big head for a second, and treat people with respect. Don’t make assumptions before you find out the facts. I never assume a woman has put herself up for sale, even in a go-go bar in Pattaya, until she quotes a price.
I would like to close by saying that we need to recognize that much of what HCG has said is basically true. We need to stop responding to her in the same judgmental and contemptuous manner in which she is berating us. We were all young once. Let it go. I was told long ago not to care what other people thought; they didn’t do it often. Take this as an opportunity for reflection.
Despite her generalisations and the way she is rather judgmental, I agree with you that there are a lot of good points she makes. If we are really honest about it, some aspects of it aren't great.
I have taken my parents to Pattaya (and they are no prudes) and they commented on the ugly women and ugly men. I took my best mate from my late teens and early 20s and he asked me why there were "so many strange white guys here" and I have to admit that as much as I like Pattaya, 2 nights is enough and I need to get out! Even I, as someone who chronicles and opines about the industry has to admit that it's not always pretty…