Readers' Submissions

Universiality

  • Written by BKKSteve
  • May 8th, 2010
  • 12 min read

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Stickman's thoughts:

but I don't think you refuted anything Jayson said…

I didn't directly refute anything Jayson said for a reason. From my read Jayson was coming from a very limited perspective, either on purpose or my guess would be out of ignorance or lack of experience. After all, how can he possibly understand what it's like to be a farang any more than I can understand being him. Perhaps he was just trying to show off for his farang friends.

His perspective was based on the observation of farangs as seen through his frame of reference (a Luk Kreung or Thai raised in the west). My perspective was based on actual experience as a
farang. I would suggest that any farang who is buying into Jayson's perspective would actually fit his definition of the average farang in Thailand.. i.e. a loser who has failed to take a good hard look at himself in the mirror and effect
the necessary improvements to become a quality male. I was trying to be nice through the use of metaphors and analogies but obviously I didn't reach the under 100's..

And why hasn't anyone yet raised the question as to why Jayson is spending enough time in farang bars to have formed these opinions? There really are only a few possible reasons.. he's attracted to what he considers "butt ugly"
women, or perhaps he's not all that successful with the "hot Thai women." Or maybe he just likes cheap watered down booze and ear damaging music. I mean really, just what the heck
is Jayson's reality? And why hasn't anyone asked..

This time I'll be blunt. Only an absolute idiot doesn't already know most women initially prefer that which they're familiar with, and the universal fact that women generally look at a mans ability to provide as a very significant factor in choosing a mate. These things aren't unique to Thai women and they really are blatantly obvious to anyone with a pulse. I suppose its surprising me a bit when reading the responses to learn some men don't appear to know these universal bits of knowledge, or that others would take offense to speaking about them in the open.

So.. I'm thinking perhaps there are some other obvious bits of knowledge concerning women pertaining to this discussion which aren't readily apparent. The rest of this submission is going to center around a submission I wrote a few years back which upset a lot of people including my good friend Dana.

LINK http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader2007/reader4297.htm

The crux of this submission is this undeniable truth: Once a man spends any significant time in the bar scene, then Thai women will be able to sniff them out like bad cheese in a lunchbox.

My, but this upset a lot of people. But it was no surprise the people it upset where those who spent a significant amount of time in the bar scene. A few years have passed since I wrote that submission and time has heavily reinforced my view on the subject.

Stick regularly espouses learning the Thai language gives men a magical edge with Thai women. I disagree. I'd go so far as to say speaking Thai immediately makes you 'suspect'
to the average Thai woman. Really? Yes! I can't count the number of times I've introduced Thai speaking farang friends to my wife or other women I know and as soon as they're gone, 100% of the time, they'll start speculating where
they learned Thai. Being Thai women they're not coming right out and saying it, but unless the man was a diplomat or professor or some rather rare personality the immediate assumption was they learned Thai from other Thai women and are therefore
immediately less desirable than a man who hasn't spent enough time with a Thai women to learn a language. Most "Thai speakers" actually aren't. Not really. Perhaps they're
okay with basic conversation but they don't know the language well enough to know how to avoid 'giving away' the background of the women they learned the language from. It only takes
one very minor slip.

My advice to those who speak Thai. Don't. Do not speak Thai or show much knowledge of Thailand (other than about the King or perhaps cultural events) at all in the beginning stages of
getting to know a Thai women. Besides, it's always so much more fun to understand more than they think you do. This has provided hours and hours of free entertainment.

A "hot Thai woman" is not at all interested in a man who has been around the bar scene, or who presents poorly. This automatically validates Jayson's observation from his barstool
perspective in a farang bar, albeit not his conclusions. A man who has been around the bar scene is not seen as a desirable quality male. (this includes Thai men and Luk Kreungs) It's like looking at a beat up taxi-cab when going used car
shopping. There are all sorts of reasons to not buy an old taxi. Mostly it's got way too many undesirable miles on it and way too many strange people have been inside.

Would you want to take a "woman of the world" home to meet mom? Or around your boss or the wives of your friends in a social situation? You and others in your own country can immediately
pick out such a woman no matter how much she tries to hide it, so don't think Thai's are any different. The Thai language or undue familiarity with Thailand itself will put you at a distinct disadvantage with "good Thai women." Now, this might be different if cruising the bars of Thonglor or Ekamai in search of a one night stand, in this case speaking Thai and knowing all the good hot night-life spots might land you a 'hot Thai woman' for the night, but she wouldn't be a 'good Thai woman' if she was in the bars in the first place. Knowing and distinguishing your prey can really put a different light on things.

Smile. Smiling will get you much further with Thai women than will speaking Thai. So will being comfortable in your own skin. Smile, be outgoing, present well, be a good listener, and you'll have more 'good Thai women'
interested in you than any one man can handle. Some people are natural frowners and in all societies, but especially in Thailand, this will put you at a severe disadvantage.

Drinking. Don't drink. Or only drink a single beer or maybe two in an entire evening. Don't be afraid to order a soda while out for the evening rather than a drink. Thai women have almost universally been subjected to men who drink too much and even if you aren't misbehaving you are still seeding a bit of fear and doubt in their mind. A man who doesn't drink or smoke is exceedingly rare in Thailand and there will be a significant number of 'good Thai women'
interested in you for this reason alone.

Speak gently, but project so they can hear you. (unless you're at the point where you want them to lean in closer and then lowering the volume is an excellent technique to get close)
Thai women aren't at all fond of loud boisterous men. They've already seen enough of this behavior and they universally hate it.

Non-verbs. Have you ever noticed how subtle a Thai woman's non-verbs are? This is mostly cultural and if you're using exaggerated non-verbs you will put off a good many Thai women and they won't even know why. If asked they'll just say you made them uncomfortable. The art of subtlety is alive and well in all of Asia and learning THIS language will put you in good stead with most Thai women without them even realizing why. Small carefully constructed and presented non-verbal cues are your invisible puppet strings if used correctly.

Stick made another comment about 100 Thai women with PhDs on a dating site with a million members being an insignificant number. Not so fast. First, a site might have a million members but they're not all active members. Who's going to believe that 1 in 30 Thai women (assuming Thai women comprise 50% of the 60 million Thai population)
are active members of ANY Thai dating site? Please.. it's a relatively rare "good Thai woman" who frequents a dating site period, so 100 PhDs on such a site I think is a very significant
number. After all, how many farangs are there who are "PhD quality" males? I would say that makes a virtual GLUT of Thai female PhDs unable to find a suitable mate. And in the past I've
mentioned my own experience meeting such women on the Chulalongkorn campus. Don't believe me? Wander on over some day and eat lunch in the faculty cafeteria. Stand outside a building looking lost (the professors dorm is a good building to act lost in front of) and within minutes you'll have several lovely 30ish female PhDs asking you questions and making overtures.

Distinguishing your prey. This is very important. If you're a 40-50ish male cruising RCA looking for a hi-so 22 year old for a one night stand who do you think you'll really end up with? Probably no one, but if you do find someone they're probably going to be one of the many 'part-timers'
and not so 'hi-so' at all. The reality is that in Thailand a 10-15 year age difference, even in good families, is often seen as a good thing. Especially if you've used those years
wisely to become a quality male. Approaching and more than 15 years and you're really pushing the limits of honest mutual attraction and will probably end up with a relationship of convenience. Not that this is a bad thing, just be cognizant
of the reality.

Most 40-50ish men looking for an actual well educated "good Thai women", who themselves are indeed 'quality males who present well',
should have absolutely no problem building a good selection of suitable applicants. But lets be honest, most farangs in Thailand aren't well educated themselves and they haven't put in the effort to become quality males. They hang out
in bars, drink, smoke, and become the proverbial used taxi-cab.. exactly the sort of farang Jayson was describing in his submission. For these guys there are literally tons of like uneducated Thai women with like baggage who have taken like effort
into becoming quality females. So not all is lost eh? Living in the appropriate reality is the real key to a happy life.

I want to address one more thing. There's this myth floating around which stipulating Thai women don't know how to love, that all they know how to love is money. Friends, if you put this in perspective it just isn't true. Thai women love as strongly and easily as any women I've had the pleasure of knowing. But, Asian societies in general have really stressed associating a persons worth by how much someone is willing to spend on/for them whether it be for food or education.

Before you condemn, consider this. How are you accustomed to evaluating love? As a small boy didn't you feel especially 'worthy' when your father gave you an especially nice
gift? Presented you with your college education portfolio? What gifts do you remember most? In general I'd say our most memorable gifts are those which took the most effort and sacrifice to give, whether it be time, money, or even the right
words. We place the most value on that which takes the most effort to give. If your Thai woman comes from an impoverished family then money took the most effort to give. There was never enough to go around, so those who got some for whatever purpose..
felt special. They felt love. Not because of the money, but because they were chosen to receive the money. The more poor the family, the more true this is. Please don't blame those without for blurring the same lines we all feel concerning
how we feel worth. It's just a matter of degrees.

Now stop all this nonsense about any Thai women being better than any other Thai woman. This is Jayson's most egregious fallacy. We were all created and remain equal in the eyes of anyone who truly matters. What's important is that you find someone(s) who brings you happiness.. whether it be for an evening or a lifetime.

Until next time..

Stickman's thoughts:

There are too many points to respond to but there is one I do take issue with.

That you believe Thai women may find a Westerner speaking Thai suspicious is something I find unusual. The ONLY Thai women I have ever found to be "suspicious" of any Westerner speaking Thai are bargirls, ex-bargirls or those involved in some sort of con or rip off. In all my time in Thailand I have never found a Thai woman outside of the bar industry or tourist industry to be suspicious of a Westerner speaking Thai. In fact just this week I was talking to an older Thai woman in the admin office of the building I live. Her English is fluent, having obviously spent years in the States – but I insisted on speaking with her in Thai. After a few minutes chit chat, all general stuff, she said what a pleasure it was to FINALLY meet a foreigner who could hold a conversation in decent Thai. Is she representative of the average Thai woman? I couldn't say. It is that it is the Western guy who should be suspicious of a Thai woman who says she is suspicious of a foreigner speaking Thai. Just what is she up to?!

Can I assume that the effort you made to study Korean and Japanese made no difference in your life in those countries or your efforts to meet the local women? After all, Japanese and Koreans really rock at English….NOT!