Readers' Submissions

What Farangs Don’t Get About Farangs And Thais

  • Written by Ben Dover
  • August 11th, 2005
  • 25 min read

After having read Jayson’s recent post ‘What Farangs “Don’t Get” About Thai Women’ , and the scathing retribution from Bangkok Bruce, I just had to throw my 2 cents’ worth into the pot.

First of all I must say that I agree with Jayson on many points, but I also disagree on some of the others as well. It is unusual and great to hear from someone with a totally unique perspective on Thai women. Jayson is truly a rare breed because he can roam freely in both circles being Thai, but raised in the U.S., yet being able to speak Thai fluently as well. Certainly, these things truly make him privy to precious few things that the ordinary farang (who is dating a bargirl) would ever know. But does he really know as much as he thinks that he knows? There mere fact that he was raised in America demonstrates one thing right off the bat…that he did not come from a poor farm family, thereby instantly skewing his viewpoint towards a more middle class or hi-so perspective, of which there are markedly few in Thailand, so he actually may be representative of the classes that he describes but perhaps not all classes as Bangkok Bruce so described.

I definitely agree with Jayson on his first point about feeling sorry for some of the certainly countless farangs who have been burned by bargirls, but there is also a case to be made for the countless farangs back in Farangland who have been burned just as bad by money-grubbing, weight-gaining, lazy, non-sexual, tubs of lard that are affectionately known as American women. But this is about what he knows about Thai women, so I will address that instead of bashing farang women.

Now, I am not nearly as sympathetic as Jayson is to the average Thai punter who gets burned by the average bargirl, because, honestly, most farangs that I have met in Thailand totally disgust me. I am in my early 40s and in my numerous trips to Thailand, I notice that every time that I walk into a bar, beer bar, or go-go bar, I see virtually the same thing that Jayson so eloquently described in his piece, as ‘the fat, hairy, smelly, 55 year old German guy sitting at the end of the bar’. It is certainly one of the more depressing things to see. Everywhere that I look, I am surrounded by men who are mostly my senior, and who look the part of the ‘dirty old man’ connotation. Of course, most of us are here as the same thing (sex tourists) but rather few of us would ever admit that. I guess slovenly and disheveled would be a more accurate way to describe them. Still doesn’t paint a flattering picture of them, though.

During my countless trips to the bars, I noticed that the more that I talked to these guys, the less that I wanted to. I found it far more entertaining to talk to some of the local ‘attractions’. As so many readers have said before, the vast majority of the guys are total LOSERS with whom I would NEVER associate with were I to be so unfortunate as to meet them in the States. I am highly educated, well-read, and extremely articulate and I wonder how some of these guys saved up enough money at their (most certainly) lame-ass jobs just to be able to fly to Thailand…or especially how they were able to have enough money to retire there. Jeez, I guess that the LOS really IS cheap, if these sorry ass bastards can live here for the rest of their golden years, come to think of it…

My entire life, I have always been very friendly, outgoing, happy, positive, upbeat, and trusting…not unlike Thai girls. But the average farang that I meet in the LOS, quite frankly, turns my stomach. The vast majority that I have met are total flakes, liars, and losers. Does this sound a little bit like a description of Thai bar girls that many of these same guys have written in to Stick extolling their woes??? Hmmm, sounds rather familiar to me.

I guess that I am rather fortunate in that I really don’t fall in love easily…but I do like to fall ‘in lust’ every now then for a ‘short-time’ or ‘long-time’, I must admit. But then, I move on. I do not become fixated again and again with every new girl that I meet at the next go-go bar like some guys do. The funny thing that I cannot understand for the life of me is how these guys get so attached to these girls in the first place. Let me explain.

Any guy who has spent more than 1 day in Thailand, must certainly see that he has the pick of literally thousands of girls. Even someone who is walking down the street must certainly notice the fact that he will see hundreds of different women EVERY day that he can choose from. Why these guys get so damn fixated on one butt-ugly girl who gives them some good sex is beyond comprehension for the average intelligent man.

I mean, jeez, of course back in Farangland the odds are totally against most mortal men getting laid once (or more) every single day by an attractive girl who actually enjoys being with you (or at least feigns the attraction quite well), but this is THAILAND!!!

Wake up and smell the coffee you bottom-feeders, there are countless thousands of girls that you might see on any one day who would be more than happy to take quite good care of you for a measly 1000 to 2000 baht, so why get totally immersed in one girl who doesn’t come close to living up to your standards in the looks or body department? Then these guys wonder why they get taken to the cleaners by some of these girls.

As P.T. Barnum (of Ringling Brothers, Barnum, and Bailey’s Circus fame), one of the most famous hucksters of all time, once said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.” And I think that most of those suckers are the farangs that I see in Thailand!!!

So, contrary to how Jayson feels about them, I do not really have a great deal of sorrow for most of these guys because they are not the kind of guys that I would pal around with in my free-time anyway as they are most definitely, NOT the kind of person that I would have a whole lot in common with.

Now I will address what Jayson said “…there is a huge difference between a “typical Thai woman” and “Thai women who date farangs””. I partially agree with Jayson on this one because, as most people know, generalizations and stereotypes usually have some degree of truth. For example, most people from my country are quite friendly to strangers, most people from my country are overweight, most Thai people smile a lot, Thai girls enjoy taking care of their man (or do so rather well after being taught that this is how things should be by her mother and family), most Asians are skinny, etc. etc. All of these things are basically true as they are applied to a culture as a whole. But, one cannot get 100% sucked into the belief that these are universal truths that apply to every single person in that culture because everyone is different.

I can attest to the fact that in my life I have met many, many people with whom I would never associate with for any number of reasons including, they are not as educated as myself, they are not funny, they are not honest, the have no interest in learning new things or that they do not share the same goals, dreams, and visions as myself. Now some of these people could certainly be classified as ‘bad’ people, but most of them just were not my ‘type’ or they were simply not interesting for me to talk to. So, although the generalizations made about my culture are true, they definitely do NOT apply equally to everyone who lives in my country, or in any other country for that matter.

That being said, it is possible to accurately coin the phrase that Jayson said about ‘typical Thai women’ as a generalization, but it cannot be applied to EVERY single Thai girl.

Now let’s talk about what Jayson said about Isaan women. I mostly agree with what he said about that, with some qualifications. Personally, I am aware that every man has different things that attract them to the fairer sex. Some guys like nice breasts, some guys like a nice ass, some guys are leg men, and some guys just want a girl with a beautiful face. Some men also like blondes, some like brunettes, some like white women, some like black women, some like Hispanic women, and some like Asian women. So everyone has different tastes and this is neither good nor bad. However, there are some lines of demarcation that many of these farangs in Thailand always seem to want to, as they said in Star Wars, “…cross over to the dark side.”

After seeing probably thousands of girls walking all over Thailand over the years, I will have to say that I am personally not really attracted to the majority of girls that I have seen because they do not possess the classical beauty and facial features that I like. I like women whose faces look like Salma Hayek or even Grace Kelly (the famous American actress who married Prince Ranier of Monaco and became Princess Grace). These women have captivating eyes, beautiful noses, delectable lips, and well-defined jaw lines and everything in near perfect proportion. Most men, of any culture, also find these two women to be absolutely stunning looking. And most Thai girls do NOT look anything like Grace Kelly OR Salma Hayek!!! And this is doubly true for most Isaan girls that I have seen. They just don’t do anything for me.

But, just as in any culture, if one searches for a very long time by filtering through thousands of these wonderful creatures, or if one is very lucky, then you can find a women whose beauty truly transcends that of the most other women in her country. In my mind, this would not be the typical dark-skinned Isaan girl, but that is my opinion (and Jayson’s too, I might add). But like I said before, that is just MY personal proclivity.

OK, so what about farangs that date Thai girls and vice-versa? Well, I would have to agree that most Thais do believe that many Thai girls with farang boyfriends are currently, or probably were at one time, hookers. Now, let’s take a look at Western culture, American culture specifically, as that is from whence I hail.

For those of your who do not know, America is called the melting pot of the world because we have people here from every country of the world because that is how our country was founded, so it is rather unique in that perspective (among other things!) whereas most other countries on the planet are much more homogeneous. So, anyone who has grown up in the States has been exposed (to varying degrees) of races, countries, and cultures from all over the world. Most Americans are not really that xenophobic because we have grown up with different races since childhood. This is the exact opposite of Thailand, and most other Asian countries as well.

So men have had this wonderful ‘pot luck dinner’ of races to choose from in America. Now, many men that I have known in my life liked white girls, some liked Blacks, some liked Hispanics, and some liked Asians.

In my experience many of the light-skinned Asian girls that I have seen both in my country and in many other Asian countries that I have been to, including Thailand, just looked a little too pasty-white and creepy to me. When you look closely at their skin, you tend to see more imperfections, veins, and differing shades of skin tone, not to mention the fact that the skin on many of these super light-skinned Asians looks kind of translucent as if they were cadavers! So, as I mentioned earlier, I prefer women who have a slight olive color to their skin because that is what I like. It’s not good or bad, it’s just me. So once again, this is just my personal preference.

So, what does this have to do with Thai women, specifically you might be asking yourself now? Well, my point is that the same thing most certainly holds true for Asian women, including Thai women. Some of these women most definitely find farangs to be attractive, because their brains tell them that that is what is beautiful. So, it is a sexual attraction thing. You cannot change this. You cannot ‘make’ yourself be attracted to a certain trait or characteristic of a person of the opposite sex; you just are…or you are not attracted to them. It is that simple.

Now, just as in my culture, it can be considered somewhat exotic and intriguing to date a woman of a different race and that is why many men like doing that…because it is sexually exciting and interesting. And the same thing can hold true for Thai girls.

Although the majority of the women are probably more interested in marrying someone who looks and thinks like them, there is positively a subset (although I must admit that I have no idea what actual percentage that this might be…Mrs. Stick???) of Thai women who are attracted to Westerners and this goes well beyond class lines of distinction or even levels of education. It is called genetics and it is rooted ‘in our bones’ and it is something that we cannot change.

For example, someone cannot ‘make me’ like white women or black women, because I am simply not sexually attracted to most of them, even though the majority of the population in my country is white. Some guys like tall girls and some guys like short girls and some guys, like me, really have no preference as far as height goes so long as the rest of the package is awesome. So, although I agree that most Thai girls truly want to be with and marry a Thai because that is what is culturally accepted and what they are used to seeing, there are most definitely some, including rich, white looking well-educated Thai girls, who are actually attracted to Western men and their features. This might be due to the overwhelming popularity of the Western media culture that has permeated every corner of the Earth. Or it might be our large penises… ; )

But never-the-less, Thais have been exposed to our culture for a while now and it most certainly has an influence on what they think about as to what is the definition of beauty and attraction.

I also accept the fact that many of these women, especially the rich, and educated ones, might be less apt to marry a Westerner due to them being perceived as ‘low-class gold-diggers’ as Jayson so eloquently put it, this does not negate the fact that some of these same women actually ARE attracted to Westerners.

Do Thai women care about what other people think? Yes. Any reader of Stick or perceptive person who has spent any amount of time in the Kingdom also knows this fact. But are all Thai women the same? NO!!! Yes, I agree with Jayson that most rich, white-skinned, well-educated Thai women would not want to marry (or date) a Westerner as she might lose face with many Thais, but there are also some (albeit a rather small subset) who do not care as much about what people think and are willing to go after what they love, and these are NOT just Isaan girls.

While I accept the fact that MOST bar girls are not the type of girl that one should marry, there are without question, some exceptions to the rule…and my girlfriend is one of them and I consider myself to be rather lucky to have met her and lucky that she spent precious little time working in the industry. I am sure that had she been working there for a few more months, that she would be classified as off-limits to me as far as any kind of a meaningful relationship goes. But my girl is not from Isaan and does not share any of the physical traits (or thought processes) that many Isaan girls have. When I am with my girl in Thailand, men (and women) are constantly staring at her and smiling. And I don’t mean the normal Thai smile, either…I’m talking the turn your head and stare at her as she passes you by on the street while you simultaneously walk straight into a light pole, kind of smile. Countless times, both men AND women have come up to us and told me that my girlfriend was very beautiful or that her eyes were pretty, or that her smile was gorgeous, or that her hair is beautiful or something like that. At first I thought that it was kind of weird, but they meant no harm, so I have grown accustomed to this happening. Now I usually realize what is being said (if it is a Thai person talking to her) and I just smile and say, “Oh, did someone just say that you were beautiful, again?” and she smiles and coyly says, “Yes.”

I have been with my share of bar girls, have also walked around with them a bit, taken them shopping and to restaurants and the like and they have NEVER received the kind of compliments that my girlfriend gets. Sure, I have gotten a couple of compliments from some of my hotties because of my discriminating tastes, but not like with my girlfriend. I also have shown pics of my girlfriend to many of my friends back in the States, and their jaw drops when they see what she looks like. I’m taking Salma Hayek like sexy and sultry looking. But the weird thing is that there are definitely other Thai girls that I have seen who are also very beautiful, yet most when most farangs come here to this steaming, tropical jungle climate they do not pick these girls, they pick the Isaan looking girls…you remember…Gorillas in the Mist!!!??? This is very puzzling to me.

Once again, before I get email blasted from some readers, I want to state that I have been with a number of Isaan girls that I absolutely adored and they were also knockouts!!! But many are simply not my cup of tea in the looks department. So, I am most certainly NOT saying that all Isaan girls look like this because they do not.

I mean, sure, if you are horny and you can’t find a total Thai hottie, then find one that you like and take her back to your hotel room for some nice ‘quality time’. But while you are walking to your hotel with your conquest, keep your eyes peeled for your next conquest…I always do. After I picked up bar girls in the past, on the way home, I have passed by numerous even hotter girls, and have stopped to chat with them and asked them for their phone number right in front of the original girl that I picked up and the bargirl that I just picked up never seems to mind this at all and they never get attitude, either.

Now, after you have slept with a bargirl (even only one time), they might try to pull that Academy Award winning ‘jealous girlfriend’ act, but before you have laid some pipe for the first time (and especially before they have gotten paid by you), Thai girls will NOT give you a difficult time about stopping and getting some new phone numbers from other girls on the way back to your hotel. I know this because I have done this numerous times. They know the game…and why we are there.

Now as a courtesy, I always followed through on my promise and took the original girl back to my hotel, but then I always had a back up plan for my ‘afternoon delight’ with my new found love that I met on the soi!

Why most other men do not do this is totally beyond comprehension because it is so easy to do.

So what about the rich Thai girls? Generally speaking these girls would probably rather not date farangs because of the face issue and as Jayson said, they really don’t need the security (money) anyway. But that is not always true.

When I went to Bangers at the very beginning of 2004, I hooked up with this Thai girl who was very well educated (Master’s Degree from Chulalongkorn), spoke English fairly well, and who was very wealthy, even by American standards. I mean this girl had the kind of money where you never have to work again and still live like a queen…even in the U.S.!!! We’re talking some serious scratch here folks. The first day that she picked me, she came in a brand new, chauffer-driven Mercedes. I remember that when I spoke with her the first time I told her that I wanted to see some of the sights of Bangkok because I did not have time on my previous trip to take a look around. She said that she was busy with work and could not accompany me all day, but that she would send her driver to pick me and take me anywhere that I wanted to go to…all day long. That was sweet! Well, to this day, the girl likes me very much and she is a total sweetheart, even though I am not really attracted to her. She is somewhat plain looking and I have rather high standards so I cannot ever envision myself dating her, but she has told me just as much, if not more about the Thai Way and Thai girls as the Stick site has! She is a true jewel.

She even met my girl previously and was somewhat speechless when she saw what my girl looked like. She always said that she was OK with the fact that I liked someone else, but it was not until she saw my girlfriend that she probably regretted saying that. She suddenly, and uncharacteristically shut up and hardly said a word.

She had told me several times that she did not care what country, or race that her boyfriend was as long as he was good to her. She also said that she wanted to get married soon. Hmmm, I must say that I thought about that (for about 2 seconds dreaming of the money of course) and wondered what it would be like to have access to that kind of money, but then I dropped that thought, because I knew that if I didn’t find my wife to be very sexually attractive, then I would most certainly be ‘straying from the roost’ in no time.

This girl spoke with me on countless occasions about being careful with Thai girls and especially bargirls. Although she is much younger than I am, I kind of think of her as a big sister type of girl because she is always watching out for me. Kind of like my own personal mamasan protecting me while I prowl on the hunt for my next kill.

Until recently I always thought that my friend was Thai Chinese because frankly, she looked like that with her jet black hair and white skin. This, in addition to the fact that she was loaded (rich), made me think most certainly that she was part Chinese, but alas, she told me that she was not. She was pure Thai, but was lucky enough to have very white skin.

I fully realize that most generalizations are true, including most of the things that Jayson said. But I just want to point out once again that there are exceptions to every rule and that the average farang visiting Thailand must certainly be on the lookout for the nefarious type of ugly dark-skinned Isaan girl waiting to dig her claws into your back…as her hands wander farther down your back towards your wallet.

But it’s all just a numbers game, and unfortunately the odds are not stacked in the favor of the average farang unless he is not one prone to fall in love easily, and is patient, and has high standards. Then, you CAN find the Thai trophy girlfriend/wife. It may not be very likely to find a real diamond in the rough, but it IS possible.

I also find it funny that whenever I have met or seen pictures of my friend’s and acquaintance’s girlfriends, I have the same reaction that Jayson does…

I tell my friends, “She’s cute.” And then change the subject but I am thinking to myself, ”Jesus H. Christ, your girlfriend must have fallen out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down!!!”, but of course, like Jayson, I never say this as it would be considered rude.

Jayson mentioned in his piece that, ‘if a Thai woman comes after you, watch out’ and I couldn’t agree with that part more.

Personally, with my girl, after she quit working in the bar after her rather short stint, and even though she was a bargirl, she NEVER chased me in any way whatsoever. It took me months of getting to know her, talking to her and writing to her, before she ever believed that I cared about her or before she ever made any attempt to get to know me because she was too shy and quiet and believed that all farangs were liars. She had been trained to think like that by her bargirl ‘sisters’…misery loves company. I only did this because I saw in her something that I rarely see or feel when I meet a girl and that is someone who is genuinely a good person.

Some of you are thinking to yourselves, ‘yeah right, a bargirl who meets a rather well-off guy and she doesn’t make the first move?’, but this was true with my girl. I know that this might seem like a paradox to some readers, but this situation really exists. I will give an example of this to prove my point. Most readers who have been to the Thailand naughty areas have seen countless go-go girls dancing on the floor looking like sexual predators stalking their prey (the innocent farang). These girls reek of pure sexual energy, lack of inhibitions, and sometimes a free sexual spirit that cannot be tamed. But then you barfine them and instantly they flip the switch and turn into these shy, quiet, demure, and charming little girls. When you get them back to your room, they are too shy to get undressed in front of you, they come out of the bathroom (after taking a shower) with the towel wrapped around their body so tightly that you need the ‘jaws of life’ (a large hydraulic device that can open a car crushed in an accident like a tin can in order to remove accident victims) to pry her hands off of the towel. And then she even gets into bed with the towel on…and only after she is completely under the sheets does she remove the towel.

So, to sum it up, I would have to say that I agree with Jayson on many points as his generalizations were dead on from things that I have witnessed myself. However, as the old saying goes, ‘There is an exception to every rule.” And there were MANY exceptions to his generalizations so he was also very wrong about many of the things that he said because of those exceptions.

To the LOS newbies, I would definitely tell them to read the Stick Reader’s Submissions regularly and follow the ‘rules of the road’ that are espoused by the various authors. Just as a good reporter gets research and information from many different sources and blends them all together to form a hypothesis, the same holds true about learning about Thai girls. There are literally hundreds of differing viewpoints on the Stick and if one reads them all, eventually you will see things from multiple perspectives allowing you to learn most all of the major and minor facets and nuance of the girls in the Thai culture. You will then be an expert at filtering through the cacophony and be able to decipher between what is a valuable tip and what is one man’s unique experience with a Thai girl that in no way is representative in generalizing how Thai girls behave. As they say in journalism, ‘Consider the source’.

That being said, I also believe that you should keep a sharp eye out for that special girl, because you never know where or when you might find one…and if you always have the attitude that all Thai girls are bad, stupid, money-grubbing, lying whores, then you will most likely have a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But if you enjoy your time with Thai girls (with a wary eye) and accept it for what it is, while being a little bit open-minded, then you might actually find that diamond in the rough…just like I did!!!

Stickman's thoughts:

I am not so sure there is such a thing as a diamond in the rough…..give it enough time and the true colours show!