Stickman Readers' Submissions May 31st, 2010

Response To Matt Hoss

Matt slip a pill under your tongue and breath deep before you blow a heart valve mate. Your emotive outburst is in stark contrast to the Thailand I experience. In Pattaya I would say the vast and overwhelming MAJORITY of men getting involved in the nightlife are young men. I met three men from Britain who were around 30 – 35 and having a great time getting drunk and falling about the place and fooling about with as many ‘bar girls’ as they were interested in. I bumped into one young man from my homeland Australia who was 22 and enjoying his TENTH trip to Thailand. He and his mate were fit young men and definitely having a great time with the young ‘bar girls’. In fact when I was at the bar he apologised as he thought he had moved in on a girl I was interested in ‘bar fining’. The ‘bar girl’ looked all of 18 years old. I am 54. I quickly told him I am an old man and she was ‘cute as a button’ and he should ‘bar fine’ her as he was a young man and they looked nice together.

I do know what you mean when you depict the old, fat, bald men who have a young 20 year old girl on their arm and they do look stupid but they are such an insignificant minority. The problem is they tend to stick out like dogs balls on a cat so you could be forgiven in thinking they are in the majority. For those small minority of out of shape, morbidly obese, balding, old men with 20 year old beautiful Thai ‘bar girls’ on their arm please get in shape or pick more appropriate company or at least be a little more discrete because what Matt is saying is pretty much on the money as to what most around you are thinking. Guys, please, just because you can ‘bar fine’ a pretty cute 20 year old Thai ‘bar girl’ doesn’t mean you should.

He Clinic Bangkok

Seriously if I ‘bar fined’ a 20 year old ‘bar girl’ I would be more inclined to check her homework was done and make sure she was tucked into bed at 10 PM than any romantic liaison.

I agree with you that many men, young and old, should pay a little more attention to their appearance in the nightlife areas. However, the young men are just as guilty. I saw a young man who came to meet his cute little ‘bar girl’ at Nana Plaza. She was so excited to see him when he finally arrived but he turned up in flip flops, a tatty old singlet top and some scruffy old board shorts. I was disappointed because she deserved a little more effort than that, ‘bar girl’ or not. I ALWAYS shower, shave and dress nicely when going out looking for some company because not only do I feel good and confident, it always pays off with a better night.

Just because a man has a preference for the appearance of Thai women should not imply he has a hatred of western women. ‘Pretty people’ attract ‘pretty people’ and ‘ugly people’ attract ‘ugly people’. Socrates would have a field day if you attempted to present that as a universal truth. I found your ‘ewok, flat nose, chimpish looks’ comments towards Thai ‘bar girls’ EXTREMELY!! offensive and racist. It isn’t about ethnicity, it is about the vast disparity in ages and physical appearance that is objectionable. I have NEVER been vaguely interested in a blonde bombshell with a ‘Ten’ rating in my entire life so why would you think I or other men aspire to the ‘hi so’ Thai woman?

CBD bangkok

One thing I have noticed on Stickman is the amount of hatred and vitriol that is directed towards the older man in Thailand enjoying the company of the beautiful Thai ‘bar girls’. You could easily point the finger straight back at the younger men from around the world that make up the majority of ‘mongers’ and suggest it is understandable why the fat, old, bald man is there but how much more a loser are the younger men in being there. Fit and young with an entire future ahead of them and the world at their feet and money in their pocket and they are ‘mongering’. Surely a person of my age could easily argue that they are ten times the loser than the old fat bald man with the pretty young Thai girl on his arm. I would never mount such an argument or direct such hatred and anger towards the young men. My advantage is I have lived their life but they do not have the advantage or understanding of having lived my life. All they will get from me is a wry smile of life experience and understanding of how life can go for a man. I would quite happily extend the invitation of meeting up for a drink and a chat when they have lived my life. I doubt there would be much to chat about other than a wry smile between two friends with an understanding of life experience and how life can go for a man.

Your analogy of western whores and Thai ‘bar girls’ is odd, to say the least. I have only ever been in one western brothel and I found it the most degrading disgusting thing I have ever done in my life. It took me 5 minutes to realise this wasn’t for me and left immediately without engaging in any sexual activity at all. Fortunately I had visited Stickman BEFORE my first visit to Thailand so I was forewarned in regard to falling in love with a ‘bar girl’ (thank you Stick). Did I fall in love with a ‘bar girl’? Yep sure did but it was in a measured way because I had been warned that it was all just pretend and not real. I don’t think men are ‘flocking to Thailand to marry a Thai whore’ as you put it. I think many men visit Thailand without an understanding of the ‘bar girl’ scene and the ‘girl friend’ experience. If you haven’t been warned it would be a very easy mistake and I am sure the Thai ‘bar girls’ would be more than happy to oblige. Other than ‘bar fines’ and ‘bar girl’ payments I have never been asked for one red cent by the ‘bar girls’ whilst I have been in Thailand or after returning home from Thailand. I have had certain accusations levelled at me in that I have ‘stolen their heart’; I am ‘their dream that come true’ etc, etc. I just put that down to they had a good time or they want to hook up again and earn some income on my next visit. Most men, young or old I met in Thailand had certain rules they abided by in respect to the ‘bar girls’. So in your tirade you are preaching to the converted but new readers should take a moderate view of what you articulate.

I am not sure you understand the basic fundamental principles in relationships between men and women. Irrespective of whether it is boyfriend and girlfriend, husband and wife, Thai ‘bar girl’ and client, western whore and client, there are two primary motivators. In all cases for the man it is the pursuit of sex and he exchanges financial security to obtain it. For the woman, it is the pursuit of financial security and she exchanges sex to obtain it. Although I would have no real problem with forming a relationship with a western woman or a Thai woman at this point in my life I find the relationship between myself and Thai ‘bar girls’ to be a more honest and upfront and an easier to understand transaction. It would be unwise of me to pursue a long term relationship with the 99.9% of available women on the planet because I do not have the assets required to fund it long term. Trust me, all that so called ‘free sex’ requires a lot of money to fund. However, I do have enough money to fund enjoyable brief liaisons with wonderful older Thai ‘bar girls’ for now. Matt for men, women are a ‘means to an end’ and for women, men are a ‘means to an end’. We both just finish with different reciprocating ‘ends’.

In June I am about to embark on my fourth trip to Thailand in 8 months. Without ANY!!! hesitation I can tell you my time spent in Thailand has been nothing short of miraculous in changing my life for the better. For the first time in 25 years I can truly say I am happy again and positive about life. I can describe it but for another man to understand it he has to have lived it. So many years of sadness and loneliness and rejection that overcomes your life that you lose the ability to be happy or see any beauty in the world. It was the time I spent with a gentle, feminine 32 year old Thai ‘bar girl’ from Nana Plaza that opened the world up to me again. Till the day I die I will always be indebted to ‘Nann’ for her unintentional gift to me and it is why I do not share your remarks towards ‘bar girls’ or Stick’s dismissal of Thailand’s nightlife and ‘bar girl’ scene as boring and uninteresting. I am getting a bit worried Stick is going to start reviewing Thailand Retirement Homes. <It should come as no surprise that there's a big difference between the outlook of someone who has visited Thailand 3 times as a visitor and someone who has lived here for over 12 yearsStick> who I understand it isn’t real but it is a placebo I am more than happy to pay for because it made me well again and opened up a start at a new and happy life for me. I would encourage men, young or old, to set aside the disparaging remarks you have directed towards ‘bar girls’. I have found that if you treat the ‘bar girls’ with respect and a genuine interest in them they will treat you the same. The ‘bar girls’ are no more manipulative and conniving than western women looking to get a ring on their finger or a ‘meal ticket’ squared away. Keep your ego in check and see things for what they are and enjoy yourself but please do not treat the ‘bar girls’ badly on the basis of Matt's comments.

wonderland clinic

If you think it is all about sex you are wrong because I have many wonderful memories and experiences from Thailand that have absolutely NOTHING to do with sex. In Australia we have more rules and ‘politically correct’ crap than you can poke a stick at. In Thailand I have walked and sat with tigers and played with tiger cubs. I have played with a little 20 day old baby elephant and touched its mother’s trunk and ears. In Australia I can get about 100 metres away from these animals with a pair of binoculars. I was able to personally visit the graves of young Australian men who died on the Thai – Burma railway and pay my respects. I have seen the most wonderful temples and beautiful thai architecture. I have had fun on the jet skis at Pattaya. In Australia I have to pay $300 dollars and go to classes for two days to do that. So it isn’t all about sex. There are many more adventures I want to do in Thailand and so many beautiful Thai ‘bar girls’ I am eager to fall in love with and enjoy a great time together.

Matt, you do make many valid points but over-all your submission lacked balance and from what I have witnessed focused on a very small minority of ‘mongers’ in Thailand.

Guys you do not have to be an Olympic athlete, under 25 and a cashed up multimillionaire with a full head of hair to enjoy a wonderful time in Thailand.

Thailand is what you make it…….it's Up.2.u.

Stickman's thoughts:

Your perspective is that of someone who is still very much in the honeymoon stage. It's grat that you enjoy it and I hope you can keep that feeling. Most people do seem to get tired of the bar industry eventially.

nana plaza