Stickman's Weekly Column › August 6th, 2023

Retirement Visa Rules To Change?

For foreigners who wish to stay long-term in Thailand, a retirement visa is the easy option. If you’re aged over 50+ and deposit 800,000+ baht in a local bank account, it’s a cinch. But comments from a high-profile Thai cop this week have some concerned that changes could be coming. Could the easy ride be over for foreign retirees in Thailand? Is getting a retirement visa going to become more difficult?

A few weeks back I raised concerns when senior Thai police officers indicated they would crack down on foreign gangs in Thailand, following the murder and dismemberment of a German in Pattaya by members of the Outlaws gang. I never imagined that the consequences of that gruesome murder could extend to retirement visas.

An article in the Bangkok Post this week following up on the issue of foreign gangs in Thailand reported that Major General Surachate Hakparn, AKA Big Joke, one of Thailand’s top cops, had this to say about foreigners on retirement visas in Thailand. “The law requires any foreigner aged at least 50 years old to have at least 800,000 baht in their bank account or an income certificate with a monthly salary not less than 65,000 baht. That requirement is too low and does not help screen quality applicants.”

The inference was clear: change is coming, and the financial requirements to get a retirement visa are likely to be increased.

If changes are made to the retirement visa requirements, what can we expect?

The obvious thing is increasing the financial requirements. It’s currently 800,000 baht, has been at this level for a very long time and it has long been inevitable that at some point it’s going to go up. Could it go up by 50%? That would probably be a fair reflection of inflation, which would set the new level at 1.2 million baht. Or could it go up more to say 1.5 million, 2 million baht or more, perhaps?

Such changes would do little to screen the so-called quality retirees Thailand claims to seek. Nor would it do anything to reduce the number of foreign gang members in Thailand.

What it would do, however, is cause a lot of worry for those who are already retired in Thailand. It’s no secret that many struggle to maintain 800K baht in the bank and increasing the financial requirements would have plenty of retirees sweating.

The next requirement the authorities might look at is the age at which you can apply for a retirement visa. Some years ago you had to be 55 or over to apply for a retirement visa but it was lowered to 50, perhaps 15 years ago or so. Could it go back up to 55? Or even 60? Given that the official retirement age for government officials in Thailand is 60, it would hardly be a surprise.

But again, would this do anything at all to stop foreigner gangsters from setting up in Thailand? No, it wouldn’t, especially when you consider that some are much younger and on other types of visas.

If the Thai government really wants to stop foreign gangsters operating in Thailand, there is a much easier way. The long-standing law which states those with criminal convictions cannot enter Thailand should be strictly enforced. The law states that any jail term except for a petty offence, negligence or something excepted by Ministerial Regulations disqualifies a foreigner from entering Thailand. Enforce that law and the quality of foreigners in Thailand would increase markedly.

Currently, the system is flawed with no question about criminal record on any Immigration forms. If this law was enforced and anyone applying for a work permit, marriage visa or retirement visa had to provide evidence of a clean criminal record from their homeland, many of these foreign gangsters would not be allowed in to Thailand, at least not on a long-stay visa. This would catch many gangsters, but not all. A few high-profile foreigners in Thailand including a couple of well-known bar owners have done jail time in countries other than their homeland.

Another worry for anyone on a retirement visa already, or someone contemplating retirement in Thailand is the noises the authorities have made in recent years about health insurance. Requiring those on a retirement visa to have health insurance would be a real worry for many. Anyone with pre-existing conditions could be faced with a very expensive policy. No doubt, some Thai insurance companies would introduce special policies for aged foreigners – but at what cost?! As the years roll by, and especially once you are north of 70, health insurance gets quite expensive and for many could take a big chunk of their retirement income, to the point that retirement in Thailand may no longer be the best option for them.

Some foreigners guffaw at the suggestion Thailand will tighten things up because, after all, Thailand needs them. Thailand needs their money. Their presence brings great benefits to Thailand. If only Thailand saw it that way!

If new requirements are imposed and retirement visas really do become a whole lot more difficult, the work-around would be to get married and apply for a marriage visa. The financial requirements for a marriage visa are much lower.

There are a couple of reasons to be concerned that things could change. First and foremost, Thailand has a history of tightening up on visa rules following the high-profile arrest of a foreigner in Thailand or the systematic abuse of visa rules.

In 2006, John Mark Karr was arrested in Thailand for the murder, kidnapping and sexual assault of a child beauty queen in the USA. Karr had been a teacher and his arrest resulted in a bunch of new requirements that made the work permit and visa process for foreign teachers in Thailand much more difficult.

For those retired in Thailand on a retirement visa who are already in the system, I would not be greatly concerned. I can’t see things changing that much for you. History shows that when visa rules change in Thailand, those already in the system are grandfathered and can use the old requirements as long as their visa extensions are unbroken. Continue to extend your visa year after year and you need only satisfy the old requirements. While the age and financial requirements might be grandfathered, you would expect any new requirements like criminal record checks or compulsory health insurance to be required by everyone.

For those who plan to retire in Thailand in the not too distant future, my advice would be to apply for a retirement visa under the current requirements as soon as you can. Get in the system now and, with a bit of luck, should the requirements change then you will most likely be grandfathered through with the old requirements. If you wait and the rules do change, then you will have to meet the new requirements. And no, you do not need to be living in Thailand to apply for a retirement visa – but you would have to get back to Thailand every year to renew it and would need a re-entry permit to come and go, but all of that is straightforward.

It’s crazy to think that the retirement visa requirements could be tightened because of the presence and errant ways of foreign gangs in Thailand.

The requirements for a retirement visa in Thailand have stayed the same for many years. The day was always going to come when the financial requirements would increase. And no-one should be surprised if they introduce new requirements like health insurance.

Of course, all of this is pure speculation and no-one knows what will happen. But given what has been said and who said it, I would not be surprised if the retirement visa rules change and things are tightened up markedly.

Mystery Photo

Where is it?

Last week’s photo was taken on Sukhumvit soi 39, behind the L Opera Italian restaurant and next to the new Iron Fairies. After a string of photos that seemed rather too challenging for most of you, I have reverted back to an easier shot in a well-known spot for this week.

Stick’s Inbox – The Best Emails From The Past Week

Pattaya today, the perfect mix.

I agree that the growing middle-class in countries like China and India (with almost 3 billion people combined!) now have the means to go on holiday, and that’s what they’re doing and will be doing more and more in the years to come. Pattaya has changed already, and the changes will be even clearer in the future. I’ve seen it changing from a somewhat seedy but vibrant and funny city, dominated by farang tourists, into a diverse mainstream tourist destination where farang tourists are a minority. Do I mind? Not at all. The tourists from other parts of the world don’t bother me (some bad-mannered Indians aside), and are not keeping me in any way from doing what I’d like to do. I like a lively Pattaya. It looks like there’s a parallel tourist universe. You have the old school Pattaya visitors, with their specific demands and visiting patterns, and the tourist majority who have mostly other reasons to visit (although there are certainly naughty boys amongst them too). The changes in Pattaya are not just about the tourist demographics, there’s also a lot more diversity when it comes to restaurants, nightlife away from beer bars, gogo bars and a handful of discos (think cocktail bars / lounges, trendy coffee places or micro-breweries) and shopping facilities. I don’t like shopping, but do like to go to the big shopping malls sometimes. As you know they’re not just shops, there are also restaurants, food courts, cinemas, service centres for banks, phone companies etc. And in the meantime, there’s still plenty of the nightlife of old around. I think it’s a perfect mix.

Cigarette filters make great ear-plugs in loud bars.

On the subject of extra loud music in gogos here in Pattaya, I went out on Friday and the DJs must be deaf. Started in Iron where the music was always at a good level. Not anymore! A new DJ was there and the music was at a level that had the speakers quaking! He was over-driving them terribly. I complained to the mamasan and she said, “I know, I will tell him to turn it down”, and off she went and talked with the DJ. No luck, no decrease in volume so without even finishing my first beer I was on my way out and several staff said the same thing, “Too loud.” It was Friday and customer numbers were less than half a normal Friday night. I don’t go there often, but I headed for XS where the music is usually at a good level. Not anymore! It was the same thing with a new DJ. It was so loud I ended up breaking off the filters on 2 cigarettes and stuffing them in my ears so I could at least finish one beer. One of the mamasans I have known since before the China virus from Pinup who is now in XS said the same thing, she would talk to the DJ. No luck again, the same ear-splitting volume was not lowered. So in desperation, I thought I’d try Bliss. I was disappointed with yet another bar with music at ear-splitting levels. I didn’t even bother to complain, just stuffed the filters back in my ears and finished my beer. How do they get away with it when the alleged bosses ask them to turn it down and they refuse?

This Week’s News, Views & Gossip

Change could be coming to Soi Cowboy? Word from someone in authority is that they wish to clean up the street and they have a list of things to be done. Of particular interest – and concern to the bars – is that one of the items on this list is the widening of the soi. If this is to happen it would mean that the decking outside bars may be reduced in size as that would be the only way to widen the street. Details aren’t clear but “1.5 metres” has been mentioned with some interpreting this as bar owners are only allowed a deck / to use 1.5 metres from the front door. There is also concern about what this may mean for the signage above bars which stretches out beyond the bar frontage, over the soi. As I say, details are unclear at this stage and it is not known if this is something that someone genuinely wants to see happen or whether it’s merely someone in power looking for tea money.

The Biergarten is gone. Closed for good and not coming back. A few of you told me the rumours were all wrong. Some of you said you’d heard rumours of the Biergarten’s imminent demise so many times and I should know better than to suggest it would close. What was the Biergarten is now in darkness, the entrance locked up and the wrecking crew is expected any day as that plot of land will undergo redevelopment. Another icon of Bangkok’s nightlife industry bites the dust.

Yes, I know there are a lot more Indians around these days but contrary to a typo in last week’s column, Nana Plaza is very much still Nana Plaza and has not been renamed “Naan” Plaza as I incorrectly referred to it in last week’s column before the error was pointed out and I hurriedly corrected it.

“Not busy, not quiet” was the word from Bangkok’s bar areas this week. Not quiet has to be considered a win given the time of year and the public holidays earlier in the week. Late August, September and early October are one of the quietest times of the year and with the rains expected to get heavier, many expats prefer the sanctuary of home than venturing out and the risk of getting drenched, and then finding it hard to get back home as traffic comes to a standstill and taxis refuse to turn on the meter.

Midnite in Soi Cowboy has a chequered history. Amongst its many black marks is that it has long been known as a bar where customers have complained of being ripped off. But in fairness to the bar, I had not heard anything about any funny business for quite some time but that all changed this week. An email from a reader described how he was charged for multiple drinks he did not order – both lady drinks and drinks for himself. The bill was questioned and was negotiated down (which is always a red flag and suggests that the venue certainly had been fiddling the bill) from almost 3,500 baht to 2,000 baht. I have no idea why this sort of thing is happening frequently in various bars on Soi Cowboy, while reports of rip-offs in Nana and Patpong are far fewer in number.

Tycoon A Gogo & Lounge in Nana Plaza on Saturday celebrated its first anniversary, which is quite a feat given the challenges the world threw at it. Recall this time last year Thailand was still reopening and visitor numbers were low. It also was taking over a spot that had been bad for a long time – Taxi a-Go-Go and the old Erotica – and suffered for months and months with a lack of ladies on stage. Eventually the worm would turn and the bar was able to attract more girls who in turn attracted customers. There are now about three dozen women on staff and Tycoon has hit its stride. This coming Tuesday the bar will host Techno Tuesday with foreign DJs.

It intentionally wasn’t advertised publicly, but plenty of people got invites to the birthday party for one-half of Billboard Bangkok’s ownership team July 30^th and, on a Sunday night, the top-floor Nana Plaza bar was packed. There was free pizza which was a nice surprise for those who stumbled into the party, and in both Billboard and Butterflies, ladies were decked out in special outfits for the “Black & Bling” theme. The birthday kicks off party season with Billboard’s anniversary party set for early September, Butterflies’ birthday in November and the Playmates Party (another ownership birthday bash) in early December. These are some of the best parties in the bar biz and worth going out of your way for.

Down in Pattaya, a lady was let go from Soi LK Metro gogo bar Las Vegas after she quoted an eager punter 10,000 baht for a bit of private time away from the bar. The owner was rightly worried about a possible backlash online should said punter turn out to be a keyboard warrior and rant about the bar being home to over-priced princesses. Whether or not her asking price of 10,000 baht was for short-time or long-time is not known.

Still at Las Vegas in Soi LK Metro, the bar has a rainy season special on bottled beers which are 2-for-1 until the end of September.

There’s a flash – or is that flashing? – new sign at Palace A Gogo and from the looks of things they aren’t done yet. The whole front of the bar has been pimped up as more Walking Street businesses invest in a beautiful frontage in what could become a new round of the neon wars. Other bars have flash new signs too. Even the old Iron Club frontage which had been a fixture for the best part of 15 years or so has been upgraded, giving the bar a more modern look. But they all have some way to go if they wish to topple the bar with the best signage. Indian disco Jannaat tops them all, with a huge LED floor right in front of the entrance and plenty of other gadgets around.

Is there demand for an ’80s themed gogo bar? Think ‘80s music, ‘80s style dress and ’80s decor and decorations. I think it would rock! The odd bar has thrown an ’80s theme night but too often it’s nothing more than a few decorations, a wig or two and music from the ’80s and it doesn’t really capture the magic of that decade. Some old-timers tell me that the ‘80s was when the bar scene was at its peak. Photos from the late ‘60s and ‘70s look rather rustic – although I don’t doubt there was heaps of fun to be had, and by the time the mid ’90s rolled around, mass tourism arrived and – so I am told – prices went up, service standards went down and things were never quite the same. If a bar could somehow manage to recapture the magic of the ’80s they’d be on to a winner. Or maybe there is an ’80s themed bar already operating that I am unaware of?

One of the big changes in the bar industry in recent years is the way that the best Pattaya gogo bars are now generally more expensive than the best Bangkok gogo bars if you’re looking for some company. It never used to be this way. It was always Bangkok that was the most expensive so this change is relatively recent. There are a few Walking Street gogo bars where the barfine rates for some ladies (models, superstars or whatever fancy term they use) can run 2,000 baht or more. I have heard rumours that there is one bar in Pattaya where the barfine for some ladies is – get this – 3,500 baht. I have not been able to confirm this but I don’t disbelieve it either. To be clear, that’s just the barfine and does not include anything else. No doubt, when a lady sees a punter pay silly money for the barfine, she is going to have similarly silly expectations that she will be compensated handsomely. Word is that many of these models / superstars / princesses in the best Walking Street gogo bars consider any offer under 5,000 baht to be an insult. Compare this to Bangkok where even in the best gogo bars, most ladies are happy with 3,000 baht short-time – and plenty of ladies will accept 2,000 baht. That said, I hear that 3,000 baht for short-time does seem to be more common now, especially in the busier bars and 4,000 baht is not uncommon amongst a small group of the most popular ladies. So, why are prices in the best Walking Street gogo bars even higher than the best Bangkok gogo bars in Nana Plaza? It doesn’t make sense when we consider that Pattaya used to attract more of the blue-collar types who – and yes, I am generalising here – didn’t tend to spend as much as others. The relevant phrase here is “used to”. It could be argued that – and yes, I am generalising again – Pattaya used to attract a less free-spending type. Word is that is no longer the case. For a clue as to what is going on, we can look at the last email in the Readers’ Emails section above from a reader comparing Bangkok with Angeles City in the Philippines. For more than a decade, fans of Angeles City have complained about the invasion of Koreans who happily throw money at the ladies which raises their expectations. Today, the best gogo bars on Walking Street are particularly popular with Koreans who are happy to pay the ladies’ high asking prices.

Speaking of what East Asian men spend in the bars compared to what white men spend, we can perhaps make one more generalisation. White men are often looking for value for money whereas Asian men are often looking for the best possible experience – and they are more than willing to pay for it. With this in mind, can we say that the days when the white guy was king in Pattaya are over?

Some of the sharks at Shark Bar, Soi Cowboy.

As if we need proof that prices for lady’s services are on the up, could 4,000 baht soon be the new normal in Bangkok gogo bars? Two women on two different days were overhead in Crazy House on Soi Cowboy quoting customers 4,000 baht. And with Crazy House ladies, that probably means an hour with her, maximum. Crazy House mamasans have long put huge pressure on ladies to rush short-time and get back to the bar as fast as possible. While it remains true that everything is negotiable, some girly bars are much more professional these days and feel like they have gone corporate with pricing to match. While bar bosses don’t get together to agree on pricing per se – which would be illegal – in at least one bar area there is an agreed “floor” on drinks prices. Girls are in on it too and in many bars they get together and agree that the asking price can be no lower than x,xxx baht, often 3,000 baht, although, as I say, in Crazy House some are now asking for 4K baht. In bars where the ladies agree, anyone caught breaking “the code” is bullied into sticking to agreed-up rates. Price-fixing doesn’t work, of course, and all of these ladies have their own personal financial pressure and are very much in it for themselves.

On this note, in some bars (Crazy House is the classic example, as well as one or two other Thai-owned and run bars), mamasans will try to charge unwitting customers in advance for the ladies fees – and pocket a cut, usually 500 baht, of it for themselves. There are many reasons to NEVER pay in advance, amongst them being the lady loses the incentive to provide good service.

After bars were closed for a couple of Buddhist holidays, Thursday should have been a bumper night for Bangkok’s bars, but Mother Nature had other plans. Heavy rain through the afternoon dripped into the evening hours with umbrellas needed until almost 9 PM. For Soi Cowboy, that washed out a lot of the crowd. That is everywhere except Shark Club, which threw its monthly Full Moon Party. Shark was packed from early until after 10 PM and there was a large crop of girls for the party. Those who started their night at Shark then went elsewhere and were a bit shocked at how slow some other bars were.

Celebrate the Old English’s 5th anniversary.

The Old English Pub in Thonglor celebrates its 5th anniversary this coming Tuesday, August 8. There will be free bar snacks including sandwiches, roast potatoes and sausages. A special three-course menu will be on offer that includes a choice of starters, mains including Angus steak, ribs on mash and a lamb shank, and desserts including crème brûlée, all for 999 baht or 1,999 for two dinners and a bottle of wine. There will be live music from Joe Delaney and the Porterbhoys from 8:30, board games and a tombola (“lucky draw” for the non-British). The Old English has created a special anniversary shirt, on sale now for 450 baht, and if you wear it to the party you get a free pint of Guinness. Guinness is on special all month at The Old English at just 225 baht a pint.

Today, Sunday, is National Root Beer Float Day and Buddy’s Bar & Grill, now about the only place since A&W closed that you can get an authentic American-style float, is giving them away free. Apologies to those who are reading this column late (I publish most Sundays around 8:00 AM, Thai time), but the giveaway is only today at lunch-time, 12:00 – 3:00 PM, August 6. No purchase is necessary, although the root beer floats are limited to one per person and for dine-in only.

As a side note, why does Buddy’s get so much coverage in this column? Do they pay to maintain their high exposure? Not at all. Quite simply, the marketing manager is on his A game and keeps me in the loop with what is going on. I have extended an invitation to all such bars and restaurants to let me know what’s going on – and you’ll get good exposure in this column if you do so, but few take advantage of it.

A root beer, not a root and a beer!

I listen to a bunch of health-related podcasts as I try to stay up with the latest research on health and nutrition in the hope it might give me a few tips to remain healthy for as long as possible. One of the areas where research is moving fast is on the microbiome, the trillions of microorganisms that live in our gastrointestinal tract. Research shows that the bugs and bacteria in our microbiome have a big effect on many aspects of our health. Basically, we want to nurture our microbiome with a healthy diet and consume little processed food. So what does this have to do with Bangkok?, I hear you ask. Stay with me and don’t jump to the next paragraph just yet! One of the best ways to destroy the microbiome is by using antibiotics often, taking a long course of antibiotics or using particularly strong antibiotics, all of which can wipe out the bacteria in our microbiome – both the good and the bad. I bring this up because back in the day, many naughty boys partied without a party hat and treated their war wounds themselves. These reckless fellows would frequently end up with the drippy dick. When that happened – and to some it seemed to happen almost every month – they’d rock along to the nearest pharmacy, grab some antibiotics and treat whichever sexually transmitted disease they had contracted. Yellow discharge meant one antibiotic. Green discharge meant another antibiotic. Clear discharge yet another, and so on. Sometimes two antibiotics had to be used at once. It was a frequent topic of conversation back in the day and one fellow I used to know was referred to as “the doc”, with some fools claiming he knew more about STDs and their treatment than most real doctors. I don’t think the term “microbiome” had even been coined back then and presumably they were blissfully unaware of the damage that frequent use of antibiotics could cause and subsequent health issues. Antibiotics have their place but you should really only use them when it’s necessary. Partying without a party hat is daft. If you contract an STD then antibiotics might be required – but don’t think they’re not without their downsides.

For those aged under 50 who wish to stay in Thailand long-term, who don’t work and don’t have a Thai spouse, there has always been the option to buy a Thailand Elite visa. Thailand Elite has a number of different packages starting from 600,000 baht which comes with a visa allowing for a 5-year stay in Thailand. If you had been thinking of applying for a Thailand Elite visa, be quick – the current packages are soon to be replaced with new packages. The current packages will only be available for another week or so and the new packages are said to jump in price. Details aren’t clear but it is believed there will be a big jump in price, possibly by as much as 50%.

One of the things I really miss about travelling around Thailand, and specifically about road trips around Thailand – is the regional varieties of Thai food. Travel from one province to another and the local specialties can be completely different. I compare that to my homeland where there is little in the way of regional food variety across the entire country. If you like authentic Thai food, a road trip around different parts of Thailand is a fantastic way to explore the country and the wide variety of food. Thai food is so much more than pad Thai, green curry and Tom Yum.

Thailand-Related News Articles

Reader’s story of the week is a naughty boy’s trip report, Soi Cowboy Gogo Bar Trip Report, July, 2023.

A Thai man was fined 1,000 baht for punching a South Korean live-streaming near Pattaya Beach.

A naked German walking up and down Beach Road in Pattaya and ranting about all manner of nonsense is arrested.

The crackdown on foreign gangs continues with possible ramifications for foreign retirees in Thailand.

There are calls from tourism industry figures to reintroduce the visa waiver scheme to make it easier for Chinese, Indians and others to visit Thailand.

A Spanish man has denied any involvement in the murder of a Colombian after another dismembered foreigner’s body is found in Thailand.

Closing Comments

Following on from today’s opener, I imagine some retirees in Thailand might be feeling a little nervous about the visa situation and their ability to stay in Thailand. Living with uncertainty is never fun – and it’s something I can’t imagine if I was living as a retiree in a foreign country where you have to request permission to continue to live there every 12 months. I met up with a friend in Bangkok when I was in town in May who has lived there for 40+ years. One of the things he mentioned to me was that things work so well as a retiree on a retirement visa – it’s all so easy and hassle-free. How long will it stay this way?

Your Bangkok commentator,

Stick

Stick can be contacted at : stickmanbangkok@gmail.com

Retirement Visa Rules To Change?

Mystery Photo

Stick’s Inbox – The Best Emails From The Past Week

More Readers’ Emails

This Week’s News, Views & Gossip

Thailand-Related News Articles

Closing Comments

Stickman Weekly, July 30, 2023

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