Mongers In Denial
Where to start? That is the question, I guess a little bit of background is in order simply to give the reader a feel for where I am coming from and how I got there. I think I am in the minority in how I came to be living in Thailand. Roughly a decade ago I was one of two partners in a somewhat successful IT company in the US. Successful enough it turned out that one of the bigger boys in the industry bought us out and I found myself in my late twenties with far too much money in my pocket and no need to work anymore.
I did what a lot of guys dream of doing – I started traveling around the world and enjoying myself. As with many other guys when I hit Thailand I stopped going anywhere else and this is where I decided to put down roots. I spent a couple of years doing the half a year here, half a year back in the States like many do. Then I moved over full time and for about the first six months I had a hell of a time with a lot of fun had by all. I was lucky enough to be young, (just turning 30) reasonably good looking and had what would be by Thai standards an unlimited supply of money.
As such I never had to work too hard for female companions and I never barfined anybody, don’t worry I realize I paid for it anyway as really we always do pay for it, but it made me feel like I had not sunk to a level that at that time I looked down upon of having to go into a bar and rent a girl for the night. The irony being of course that when I would chat up a shop girl, take her to dinner with a couple of friends and then maybe a day tour somewhere, buy her a couple of nice little gifts before I got to bed her on a regular basis I likely paid A LOT more than if I had just rented a girl for the night. But I was young and did not really care. I just wanted that illusion that I was the “man” picking up those hot Thai babes and I never had to pay for it. Haha.. ahhhh the innocence of youth. J
I quickly realized that was not a long term lifestyle choice and took a chunk of the money I had and invested as a 1/3 partner in a business here in the Kingdom. I won’t name the business but I feel safe to say that if you are in Thailand for any length of time you have at one time or another used our products OR been in a business that uses our products. We have offices in central Bangkok and also a pair of factories. All in all we employee in the area of 300 Thais. Please note this is not bragging – I was lucky. I accept that on the sale of the first business. I am merely giving you a bit of background to ‘qualify’ if you will where my opinions of Thailand are coming from. Meaning I am not a two week millionaire or a sexpat. Not that I look down on either but just that we do different things when here.
Which brings me to my first point, living here versus being a part of society here.
I know many people move to Thailand and they do so to retire and find as much cheap pussy as they can or suntan all day. They drink almost every night and rarely if ever do ANYTHING in Thailand that is not either tourist or monger related. If you go to a temple with your bargirl that IS monger related, same as taking her shopping etc. I mean NO connection at all to “the” industry. I also know people that come here to teach, and that is a tricky one, because as a teacher you CAN in fact just be living here and the job is merely a way to keep a visa so you can hunt for the aforementioned cheap pussy or you can take an active role in the society in which you now find yourself. When I say I am part of Thai society I simply mean, I live here, work here, own condos here, own a business here, pay taxes here, and most importantly I am involved in work seminars, business networking groups. I have regular Thai friends that I go to dinner with and play golf with. I do understand we will never be close friends like if I was Thai but I feel very safe in saying that NO monger could find THREE Thais they know that are NOT in any way related to the nightlife industry that they could go golfing with.
So for the purpose of this novel, living here and being a part of society are very different as defined above. I would be curious to hear Stick’s take on my definition. <It's fair, but I think you're being unreasonably harsh on teachers. If they teach here, they are employed here meaning they have a home here and most will be respected in society simply because they are a teacher – Stick>
Ok now that we have that out of the way.
Like I would assume everybody that either comes to Thailand or lives in Thailand I am a member of a number of forums online. Some are very much monger related, some are not all monger related to the point monger talk is removed, some are business related. I have always found forums to be a sort of entertainment and never really take anything said in them too seriously, realizing that a lot of guys like to take the piss and troll and you just can’t let them get to you no matter how over the top some of the stuff said is. I find that the forums can be a great source of amusement if you read them on a regular basis sometimes just by the green nature of newbies coming over and their questions and other times as is the experience that prompted this submission, by the complete total and utter self denial of some of the mongers that come here are in and the lengths in which they go to soothe themselves.
So let me set the stage for you, the poster in the forum in question goes by the nick of “<Edited – Stick>” (Stick, feel free to edit the nick if you feel it should be done) which itself issomewhat telling I would guess. I will not name the forum as that really does not further the story but again Stick if you feel it’s important let me know and I will forward.
This poster and I had a discussion this past week about a number of things, a rather wide ranging chat and for the most part civil. But the thing that still has me shaking my head and so much so I finally had to ask him if perhaps he had gone off his meds. He claims that regular Thai folks (meaning people with ZERO connection to the P4P industry) totally accept bar girls and sex workers. In fact they see them in much the same light as a girl that does laundry or washes up dishes. Read that again if you must. I know anybody that lives here is now having to clean their screen…but believe it or not he was in fact serious. At first he claimed to have learned all of what he knows about Thai culture from his live-in ladyboy. Hmmm, then when pushed that perhaps that was not the best source of info he changed it to this is what he read in a book called Thailand Fever. I have never read this book nor do I have interest to read about some mixed couples' take on Thai culture when I live it every day. But still I was gob-smacked and still am that this bloke really believes that.
The question is DOES he? Or is he simply so deep in denial and self loathing about his lot in life that he will grasp to anything that allows him to sleep at night and pacify himself that his lifestyle and actions are acceptable?
I would put this question to him, and in fact I did but edited the post as I did not want to continue the back and forth as it was clearly going nowhere as he refused to answer a number of direct questions I asked so I assume this would be no different and felt I wanted to get the opinion of a broader range of people.
So imagine the scene. Little Noi comes home up country to somewhere in Issan and brings with her the latest walking ATM. She has a new tattoo and another piece of gold and more new clothes… and some extra baht for mom and dad. Needless to say they are thrilled (more on mom and dad later) after little Noi goes back to the big city and friends and family talk to mom and dad and ask them what wonderful job little Noi has that pays her so well and allows her to meet so many farang I am sure they answer. Well our little Noi has a very tight little pussy and as such she is a very good fuck, she is considered a superstar at her bar and gets bar fined at least 15 times a months, so the lucky girl gets to fuck 15 total strangers a month.. yes we are so proud of our little Noi becoming a super star so quickly, we just can’t wait for the day when she takes her little sister Nid to work with her…hopefully she will be just as good.
BULLSHIT…. We all know the answer will be oh Noi works as a waitress in a very fancy hi so club / restaurant and makes very good tips and meets many farang there. Or she works as front desk staff at a Five Star hotel and makes very good tips and meets many farang there.
Even when the parents know what the daughter is doing and I would say that is likely more often than not and they are so poor they accept the money knowing where it comes from there is NO chance they brag to their friends about what she does for a living…that my friend is NOT what one does when one performs a job that is ACCEPTED…
From the Dictionary
Acceptance – The state of being accepted or acceptable. Favorable reception; approval
Is that how YOU think Thai mainstream society sees sex workers???
Trust me we all know if little Noi toiled as a laundry worker in BKK she would not have all the great stuff to give mom and dad and show off with but her parents would NEVER lie about her job.
All the readers that have lived her for any length of time know that sadly enough there are far too many Thai parents that at the very least quietly encourage their daughters to keeping working on their backs because of the level of income it brings in. But again that is not acceptance.
If one speaks Thai and spends even a few months in Thailand away from the bar scene they will know very quickly that MOST middle class Thais can’t stand their Issan cousins, thinking them to be too lazy, too poor, too stupid, too dirty… but of course they accept bar girls that are overwhelmingly from Issan….. NOT.
Think about this one for a moment. The elite of Bangkok were the ones that proposed that people in Issan should have their votes only count as half a vote each in elections because they are too dumb to be trusted with a full value vote so that gives you a very clear idea what they think of them.
For the sake of full disclosure, I should point out that I have in the past employed a girl now and then from the P4P industry so I am not stating this opinion because I hate sex workers or anything like that. Simply that while using that particular forum it was clear there are many mongers that are completely out of touch with that real Thais think. Most have no idea what a real Thai is and would not know one if they tripped over them. Even to the point they don’t get that many of the regular service staff and vendors, etc. that toil near the nightlife venues have become hardened and bitter about the tourists and their behavior.
These are the guys that stroll around MBK and other mainstream places arm in arm with their paid sex worker kissing them, showing affection in public and don’t realize how offensive that is to members of regular Thai society nor do they care. These are the same guys that use their bargirl slang and think people are impressed, when it is in fact the complete opposite, painting them as mongers that hang out with bar girls which then makes them look like a lower form of life.
How very sad for them to live in such an interesting country, for better or worse and know so little about it, other than the Soi 4 to 33 area of Sukhumvit. I guess I have just grown tired of all the two week millionaires that know all the tricks to find just the right hooker for the night and think that somehow that gives them inside knowledge to the other 99% of Thai society. Oddly enough, I have come to realize that I actually enjoyed Thailand much more when I came here only on vacations. Once one gets deep into the mainstream society it is not really that great a place for farangs to be as xenophobic as Thailand is. Anyway I now have my counter turned on, November 2011 the return to the west full time and not a moment too soon. It will be nice to come back to the Kingdom as a tourist and enjoy it fully once again.
Your opinions are of course welcome guys but just a quick note, if you plan to just email with a bunch of flames save the effort it will be deleted and not replied to. But I would be very curious to hear the opinions of other long term expats.
This issue is rather more complicated than it may first seem. Different people within Thai society have very different views on it.
Yes, there are many within Thai society, especially older, more traditional Thais, who look down on all sex workers. That cannot be denied, just as you cannot deny that many families do know what their daughters (and in some cases sons), are up to.
There is a big distinction I would like to make here. Many Thais look down on women who do not respect, and may be considered abrasive towards, Thai culture i.e. they wear sexy, revealing clothing in public, they cavort with someone in public who is obviously paying them etc. At the end of the day, however, they DO accept that these women are often doing it for their family, to help out people who are desperately poor and they DO admire them for their willingness to take care of their family, something which is very much part of Thai (and Asian) culture. Like I say, this is a very complicated issue.