To be read after reading Dana's submission number 145.
To Dana: Re Ethical Relationships.
I am an avid reader of the Stickman site and have probably read every submission posted on the site including all of your own. I read mainly for the humour and not to learn anything of the so called culture. In fact I sometimes shudder at the naivety of posters who after a short period of residence become experts on the subject.
I have limited knowledge on the subject of Thai culture as I have only been visiting regularly since 1983 and have been a resident of Disneyland for Adults [read Pattaya] for the past 11 years. I have had exposure at most levels of Thai society from introductions however briefly to members of the royal household [not the servants] down to visiting the unregistered slum dwellers at the bottom level of the social structure. These experiences have come as a result of the voluntary work I do for a local body of people [no I am not a member of the Expat’s, Lions Rotary, or any God fearing Christian group]. The reason for this brief background resume is to try to validate an observation I have made during that time. The Thais really don’t give a stuff whether we stay or go learn the language and observe their culture or not as long as we make a contribution and that contribution should be measured in baht.
This short preamble brings me to the point of this contact, your views on Ethical Relationships with Thai Women. Of all of your one hundred and forty odd submissions this one was the one that should be read and absorbed by all readers. Those over the age of forty [younger than that they have no understanding and cannot be told anything] should pay particular attention. Why would any person with the slightest conscience want to mess with the feelings of another when they really only want to mess with their body. The point you make to me is there is an abundance of working girls in Thailand for that very purpose and they understand only too well how to do it better without all the bullshit of love. Relationships are fine when entered into on a contractual basis as in, I love your body, you love my money, let's work this out. If one wants anything deeper and more meaningful they should give themselves a chance by diving off the deep end in water that they are familiar with. I know that it has been done to death but true just the same that if you have failed at or not been able to negotiate a successful relationship in familiar territory then what are the odds of turning it around in alien territory. In my own case I have succeeded in making my marriage work by putting a little time and distance between us. Seven thousand kilometers and eleven years to be precise and it seems to be working.
During my time in Thailand I have been presented with the odd opportunity to develop relationships with nice Thai women [at 70 I have no appeal to nice Thai girls], but since I know full well that I would only let them down I have saved us both the grief that would have resulted by refusing to take advantage. Besides, had I done so it would have been to the economic disadvantage of too many bad Thai girls.
Dana, I applaud your attitude to the subject of Thai relationships and though it may have only been tongue in cheek [I really hope not] for it describes my own feelings on the subject perfectly.
A brief tale of my own personal experience with a nice Thai woman. In my voluntary work I call on many schools and am almost without exception asked by teachers both old and young about my personal situation. Do you have wife farang? Do you have wife Thai? Do you have teerak? My standard reply is mai mee to all of these queries and explain that I am an old man, not handsome and with very little money. This is normally enough to generate a chuckle and then we get to the business at hand.
However at one particular school where the project required my attendance on a daily basis for almost two weeks a teacher quite attractive, 30 years old and single seemed to be at my side incessantly with cold water, coffee and cakes. I wondered what was happening to her classes during this period. I had assumed that she had been assigned to me as a matter of courtesy while I was working there. All the while our conversations got more personal with each day and she gave me her phone number and made it quite plain that it wasn’t for business purposes but she would certainly appreciate my asking her out for a meal or whatever.
My initial thoughts were why not? Wine her, dine her, fxxx her, forget her. I held of thinking that after I had finished the project I would be out of sight, out of mind but she was persistent.
A few days after completing the project she had made an appointment to bring her school director to my office to say thank you and present me with a large floral token. Not only but also an invitation to the schools family day the following week where I was to be a VIP guest. Protocol made it impossible to refuse, so it was that I attended and was straightaway taken in hand and introduced to her parents, both of whom seemed to be younger than me but seemed not the least bit concerned that she was holding my hand and behaving in a most affectionate manner. She would later that day ask me why I had not called her.
It was crunch time. I had spent the past few weeks struggling with my conscience. I had picked up the phone so many times only to put it down again before ringing the number that was etched into my brain. Here was a woman 40 years my junior offering herself but I knew [or thought I did] she wanted more than a few nights out and a roll in the hay. What to do? What if I am reading this all wrong? Shat if she has just overplayed the courtesy card? We managed to find some space and I tried as best I could to explain why I had not contacted her. The general gist was that I was far too old to consider a serious relationship and was far too fond of her to use her in any other way. The fact that she did not laugh in my face but wiped a tiny tear from her eye when she thanked me for being honest with her suggested to me that I had read it right. I have had subsequent dealings with her school and though we have still not been out together I get a more than fatherly hug from her when I visit even in front of the principal or other teachers. And the first question is always…you marry yet? My reply is always the same, no and you? To which she always says…no I wait you. It does wonders for my ego, and for once I believe I have made a friend instead of a conquest.
Perhaps this is a case of to thy own self be true and if so this is one thing we have in common, however after reading your jottings for the past three years let me once again thank you for many entertaining hours. Should the
opportunity present itself I would enjoy buying you a small libation at a location of you’re choosing next time you are in the Land of Smiles. Thanks again.
A Dana Fan
For me this submission really hit the spot.
For foreign guys – and it is important to make this distinction because it is quite different with Thai guys – it is so easy to believe that many Thai women are highly promiscuous. Of course there is a subset of women who are, but the truth of the matter is that many Thai women will "give themselves" to a guy in the hope that he will "give himself to her". It's the old maxim of women giving sex in the hope of getting love. It's just that when a farang guy enters the equation things may well accelerate and she may bed him very, very quickly. It is easy for a guy to take advantage of the situation and there are many, many Western guys doing that.
There's a skill in being able to pick the girls who are up for a bit of genuine no frills fun as opposed to those who will sleep with you quickly – but are really only doing so because they want something much more. In my youth I would have been the typical red-blooded male and proceeded irrespective of the situation but that changed. Some might call me a sissy, but I think in life you've got to have a conscience; you've got to live with the results of your actions.
The guys who complain about bedding a so-called decent Thai girl and then her giving him a zillion headaches when he tried to extricate himself from her most likely bedded such a girl. He either misread the situation – or misled her.