A Mexican in Bangkok

Chef Luis is the executive chef at Thailand's largest chain of Mexican restaurants, Sunrise Tacos. With a colourful background that includes dashing across international borders out of sight of border guards and doing a runner from Immigration officers as they raided a restaurant in which he was working illegally, Chef Luis is not just a great chef but quite a character. We sat down for a chat about life in Thailand, working with the Thais, why Americans get so bent out of shape over Mexican food and plenty else.

Chef Luis, upstairs in Margarita Storm, Sukhumvit soi 12.

You're originally from Mexico. I thought Mexicans cross the border and work in America. Didn't America appeal to you?

I actually lived in America for almost 14 years. I really liked it there but after 14 years I went back to Mexico.

How did you get in to America? Did you go under or over the fence?

The first time I went to America I crossed the border near Tijuana. It was around 3 AM when the border guards changed and that is when we could cross.

And it was as easy as that?

<He laughs> No, the border guard saw me and he yelled, Stop chicken! I didn't stop, I ran!

Did he yell at you in English or Spanish?

He said, "Stop, chicken" in English! I ran and ran, did not look back and did not stop!

So you were with friends?

My uncle, my cousin and some friends, yes.

Did you laugh when he said that?

I was very afraid! I was just 16 years old. I was very nervous and afraid of the border guards!

That's a long time ago.

1989.

So is it the same now? Is it easy to cross from Mexico in to America now?

Now, it's not so easy. I have many friends who try to cross the border. Last year, one friend tried and didn't make it and he had to return to his hometown.

So why did you leave America after such a long time?

After 10 years working in the US with a clean record, the company I was working with got me all legal.

So you were an illegal for 10 years?

I was illegal for 10 years! <We both laugh>

That can't have been fun. Were you always looking over your shoulder?

Actually, I had to flee the restaurant or hotel where I was working more than 10 times. I was lucky and never got caught. I always knew before they came!

You knew? How? Is America like Thailand? Do the cops tip off businesses that are paying them before a raid takes place?

<Chef Luis laughs really loudly> Haha, no! I worked for big hotels and they always received a letter beforehand so we were aware that a raid would happen some time soon.

OK, enough about dodgy border crossings. Where did you learn to be a chef?

My mother worked in a kitchen for a government department in Mexico. I felt like I wanted to learn how to cook so I helped her make some salsas, clean the meat, make dips etc.

In America my first job was in Oregon where I picked apples. I worked there for 1 year. I didn't like it because it was hard work in cold weather. I moved down to Pasadena, in California. In Pasadena one of my friends recommended to me to work in the Hilton Hotel. I started there as a dishwasher and did that for 2 years.

Most people in the kitchen were Mexicans. They taught me how to use a knife, how to cut, how to prep. I was ready to work as an assistant cook and they introduced me to the executive chef. I said I needed a chance to learn. From there I started to learn, and I went through all the different stations in the kitchen. That's the best way to learn.

When I moved back to Mexico from the US, I looked for a job but no-one wanted to hire me. I knew Italian and American food, but they only wanted to hire a Mexican food chef. I had to make Mexican food…so I decided to go to a school and I learned to make Mexican food in Mexico.

So what companies did you work for in the USA?

I worked at big hotels like Hilton, Red Lion Hotel, Holiday Inn, Double Tree Hotel and Sheraton. The last hotel was the Benson Hotel in Portland, Oregon, which was a 5-star hotel.

Pasta at Margarita Storm.

What did you cook there?

All different types of food – Japanese, Chinese, American and Italian.

After the hotels, I started to feel bored because it was always the same and I knew what was going to happen next. I felt like I needed a new challenge so I looked for a new job. I wanted to work in a restaurant chain. It might be less prestigious but it is more fun. I worked at Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Chilies, Hard Rock Café and Romano's Macaroni Grill which sent me to branches in different states.

I worked for a while at Joe's Crab Shack and some of the recipes there inspired me to create some new dishes at Margarita Storm.

So when did you actually become a fully-fledged chef?

I was a line cook. After 6 weeks I was called in to the office and given a uniform with my name on it and from that point on I was the executive sous chef. Officially, I started at 9 AM but I went in at 5:30 or 6:00 AM because I wanted to learn everything I could. My Mexican friends said I was stupid working for free but that's what I wanted to do. And it paid off. The manager saw how keen I was and within 6 weeks I became the sous chef. After half a year I was the executive chef.

The main store was out in Utah where they do their training. Whenever a new franchise opened they sent me to support the chefs there. Sometimes I went to towns in Wyoming and I was the only Mexican there. You can go like 20 kilometres and there is not one person, no exaggeration! When they see a Mexican, they think you ran all the way from the border. Kind of like when the border guard yelled Stop chicken and I never stopped running and ran all the way to Wyoming! They had never seen a live Mexican before and they were looking at me, all these cowboys, thinking, what ya doin' here, boy?!

Why did you leave America? Did Immigration catch you?!

No, I was legal! I just left…but then I had trouble if I wanted to go back. If I wanted to keep my residency I had to be there for 6 months minimum per year, but I didn't go back so it automatically expired.

So why did you go back to Mexico?

I was missing my family after so long away. When I went back it was totally different. I couldn't even find my house! My homestead was very small and when I went back it was really big. There were American restaurants like Wendy's, McDonald's and KFC. America had taken over and I felt like I was still in America! There were all these American department stores like Wal-Mart and Home Pro. This was America again! I left a small town with 8 districts and when I went back there were 120 districts.

Many businesspeople invested money there and had big plans. Big companies moved in from all around the world. This was a small town with a resort area and it became like a go to place like New York's Hamptons…but I guess maybe not quite as nice!

What did you do next?

For a month I enjoyed time with my family, no work and just spent time with friends. After a month, I started looking for something to do. I worked for one of the big hotels in my hometown for 6 months. One of my old friends was working for a Mexican chain restaurant, El Fo Gomcito. They have many branches in Mexico. He called me and said he knew I had been in America. He was an old school friend and was now a manager and wanted me to open one of these restaurants in my hometown. I was there for the opening. After a few months, I thought to open a small business myself to sell Chinese food. That went well as many people liked the food. The owner of this company came back to me as he knew I had married a Chinese lady.

Hold on a moment. You married a Chinese lady? Where did you meet her?

I met a Chinese lady who was studying Spanish in my hometown. They came to my restaurant and they all spoke English but no Spanish and I was the only one who spoke English. From there, I kept in touch with them, and you can guess the rest! Anyway, my friend wanted me to go to Beijing to open a branch of the restaurant there.

And you went?

I went to Beijing by myself and my wife was still in Mexico. She was pregnant and I went there myself for a few months. Then I went back to Mexico, and brought my wife and son to Beijing.

Tell me about China. What was it like living and working there?

Living in China is fun. Everything was new and some parts of the lifestyle are good, some not so good…like everywhere, really. It takes time to get to know the place. The Chinese people listen to you but you have to know how to talk with them and you need to be nice with them and be positive. In America, we can tell people straight or use words that are not so polite. My Chinese employees all had notepads and they always wrote down everything I taught them. If I taught them a recipe they would write it down and would ask questions about it. The next day they would follow the recipe, cook the dish and they would get everything right. They are excellent learners and good workers. Chinese workers always follow the recipe. They really like to do things well and they have pride and passion.

Did you have any difficulties of problems working in China?

Aha <he says, with a cheeky look in his eyes>.

One time all of the staff walked out! It was a 600-square metre restaurant and there 28 people in the kitchen. I'd been there about a week and I tried to do things my way. My boss was from New York and we made the staff listen to us and do things our way. This New Yorker had bought a Mexican restaurant. He said he didn't like the old chef's ways, the recipes weren't right and he wanted me to come in with my recipes and make changes. I told them that everything must go this way. Everyone just walked out. I was by myself with maybe 300 customers in the restaurant and there I was, the only chef in the kitchen!

One of the staff spoke good English. He had walked out with all the staff but he came back in. He said, Hey chef, you're working kind of hard! He explained how to talk to Chinese people. I looked at his face and felt he was a good guy. He gave me a few hints and when I said I was prepared to do things that way, he called all the staff and they came back in.

Different staff had a different coloured bandana which showed their position. Like yellow for prep and red for a senior cook, blue for a cook with 3+ years experience. This guy had a red bandana, he was like an assistant, almost a sous chef. And then everyone was back and we worked hard. I made him my sous chef.

He told me not to threaten the Chinese workers. He said the secret to working with Chinese was to engage them, make them feel important and then they will follow you. After that there were no more problems. I resigned from Beijing because the weather is so bad in Winter and the air pollution is so bad too. I moved to southern China which has better weather and is a better environment for my son.

I went down south to open a different restaurant and many staff wanted to follow me. The New Yorker boss called me and asked me not to take too many staff with me! The guy with the red bandana came down and then 7 staff arrived…and I was thinking, shit, you guys are going to make me problems with the old boss! This was a new restaurant with a new boss. It was Guangzhou and the boss there was an Aussie.

What other problems did you face in China?

In Guangzhou we were visited by my old friends, Immigration! Here in Thailand it is very easy to get a work permit but it is not like that in China. The first week I was here I got a work permit. In China, as a qualified, experienced chef and with a Chinese wife, I could not get a work permit.

So just like in America, you were illegal again?!

Yes <big smiles and laughter>. But this time I got caught! When I went south to get away from the cold it was a different district and I had to wait 3 months for a new work permit. Immigration visited us and when I showed them my work permit the officer said it was valid only in another district.

Actually, the first time they visited us I was back in Mexico. I had to bring 3 more Mexican chefs because we were expanding. So Immigration visited us and there were 4 of us, all without a work permit! Nearby was another Mexican restaurant owned by a Chinese guy who was a known Mafia figure with bars and all that. His restaurant used to be busy but we killed it. Immigration came in and went straight through the restaurant to the kitchen. There were about 10 Immigration officers. I saw them coming so walked a little, and then a little more, and then I ran! And no-one said Stop chicken this time! I ran and ran, out the restaurant, down the street, around the corner and I just kept running, for hundreds of metres! I got somewhere safe and I called the owner's assistant. She knew Immigration was at the restaurant and said that they wanted to arrest one guy – the guy who ran. And I was like, Yeah, that's me!

My boss placated me and said he had to pay a 25,000 RMB fine per person.

How much is that?

About 125,000 baht per person, or half a million baht total for the four of us.

Yikes!

I had not fronted to the Immigration officers when they originally came in the door and they were angry with me! They had retained my colleagues' passports.

We had to go to the Immigration office. When we were there I was looking around and thinking where can I run? I saw a tree and saw a branch and was thinking if we had to we could jump out the window, on to the tree, climb down and run. We were all speaking Spanish together cos we knew they couldn't understand!

One by one they called us in to the office. My boss's assistant was all super polite and greasy with the Immigration officer. He asked if I knew who he was. I said no, I didn't know, I only know you're Immigration. He was like, I am the big boss…and I was like, I don't want to go to jail! He had all our passports and he said, I can send you back to Mexico now! The boss's assistant was beside me nudging me to be nice to him. He threw my passport down hard on the desk. We were charged and it went to court. After 3 months we eventually got our work permits.

I was visited one more time by Immigration. At that time, I had another 3 assistants. I had a work permit but the three new guys didn't! So we were arguing about what to do. I had my work permit so they couldn't do anything to me…but my boss had to pay fines again.

There's so much red tape over there to get a work permit.

But the money is good there. I actually made more money in China than I did in the US.

Sounds like a sign of the future.

They paid for my apartment, medical, food, flights to Mexico, even my laundry, everything was paid for. It was great! Not every company is like that but my salary was higher than in the USA and I had all these benefits.

I thought the Chinese were cheap?

No, not at all! They spend a lot of money and they drank Tequila like it's water. But they are good with money and they plan. From the past, people died because they had no money but now it's different. When they go out to try something new or different, like Mexican food, just one couple may order 6 plates of food because they want to try a bit of everything. They don't finish it all but they like to try it. If it's a big family, they order so much food.

Calamari at Sunrise Tacos' sister restaurant, Margarita Storm.

So why did you come to Thailand?

My son has breathing issues when it's really cold. Even in the south of China, in Winter time it was a problem for him.

So, was Thailand to be the 3rd country you ran from Immigration?

Haha, no, not any more! I searched in Google for Mexican restaurants in Bangkok and found Sunrise Tacos. When I came to Bangkok I went to the Sunrise Tacos main branch and there was Big Greg. This was when the city was flooding, no-one was around and Terminal 21 had just opened. It was October, 2011.

I started here November 27th, 2011 and I had a work permit. Yeah! More important, my wife and son were legally able to stay in Thailand as I had a long-term visa and their visa is connected to mine based on having a work permit.

Did Sunrise have a Mexican chef then?

I hear that there used to be this big Mexican guy who looked like Vin Diesel but when I arrived, no.

So you were hired as the executive chef? Tell me about working in Thailand.

First, there was no more stop chicken! Working in Thailand was kind of hard, especially the first 3 months, and especially working with the local people. They are very different how they work. The culture is totally different to both the USA and China. The workplace culture is very different.

If I compare China and Thailand, Thai people are nice and I really love them. But they are poor listeners, especially when a foreigner says something. When a Thai mother or senior Thai person speaks to them, they listen. But they don't listen to foreigners. And in the workplace, a Thai person can bellow at another Thai if they are old enough or senior enough, but even when I am the executive chef, I cannot do that or even say anything. They would see it as my fault for saying something not nice! I don't raise my voice. Thais are very sensitive when it comes to foreigners. It's almost like they are looking for an excuse to cry. Their Thai boss can do or say anything and they will apologise and feel bad about it, but not a foreign boss!

One thing I liked with the Chinese is that you teach them something once, and you go back and check and they are doing it exactly how you told them to. With a Thai, if you go back and check they have taken shortcuts and do not follow your instructions. Here it is totally different to China. I'll give you an example. One of our recipes requires you to mash the ingredients fresh. They must be fresh. The same way they make Thai som tam with a pestle and mortar. I soon figured out that some Thai staff had used a blender. They thought it was the same, but it is not. The flavour and texture is totally different. I had to explain a number of times before they got it. In China, that would never be a problem. As soon as you turn your back here they do it their way! I would tell them they had used the blender and they would outright lie and deny it! So I would bluff and ask them if I had to check the camera (there isn't one) and they would become sheepish. That is just one example of so many.

In China the staff always want to learn and time doesn't matter. They will come to work early because they're so keen to learn. Come early or go home late, they were ok with it so long as they are learning. They never said no. Nothing was ever a problem! Even in the US, many cooks would stay and work long hours and be happy. But here in Thailand, it's different! Actually, it's not just the local people. The Filipinos always look at their watch too. As soon as their shift finishes, they just walk out the door. The Burmese are very good, they are excellent. They stay late and work hard. And that is good because they are not in the 4:1 quota system for work permits. There is red tape but it's different. In China, the staff had notepads and manuals which they would take home and study. I never saw a Thai in the kitchen with a notepad and the manuals always sit in the same place and never move!

I have found the Thais are more polite as a people. I hated it when you saw a beautiful girl walking down the street in China and then she spat on the street!

I know that from time to time you go around and try the food in other Mexican restaurants here in Bangkok – what do you make of it? Before you answer that question, let me tell you a story. I went to La Manita and I thought the food was terrible, but my Thai other half thought it was the best Mexican she had ever had. When I asked her why, she said it was Thai flavored food using Mexican style ingredients like beans, soft tortillas etc and so it appealed to her.

I should mention that in China we tried to make authentic Mexican food like chili enogaga, pollo mole, pozole, zopitos, cochinita, tampiquena and menudo. Not many people liked authentic Mexican. These dishes you would not find in a lot of Mexican restaurants. It's very hard to sell them because people don't know them but actually, in Mexican restaurants in North America, they will have them. In China, after we added nachos, quesadillas and burritos, business improved.

What do you mean by authentic? It's all Mexican, right?

In Mexico, there's a big difference between food in different regions. It's a big country. In the north, the tortillas are different to the tortillas in the south and the way of cooking is different. And with Mexican food in America, in say Houston, the way they do things is different from one side of the tracks to the other. So you can even split a city like Houston by different Mexican food styles!

Actually, now Mexicans have adapted and you can find nachos, quesadillas and fajitas all over Mexico! Even 10 years ago, you could not find these in my hometown. I asked my mum to make a burrito and she's like, what's that!

The Cowboy Tacos at Sunrise Tacos are the top seller on the menu.

Why do some Americans get SO angry about their idea of Mexican food! They rant and rave and some even get ugly – uglier than I ever see them get over anything else, perhaps politics aside. Some rant and go on and say, this isn't Mexican! Honestly, Mexican food brings out the very worst in some Americans (and only Americans) and it seems to be a VERY emotive issue. Sometimes I think you could shag an American's wife and serve him Mexican food not to his taste and the latter would make him angrier!

It depends on the version of Mexican food they are used to. They will probably never be happy unless they eat the version of Mexican food they are used to. Like in the Yucadan, they use a lot of nuts and anise and cinnamon but if you use that in some dishes, these people would say the kitchen doesn't know what it's doing by putting nuts in their Mexican, but actually it is authentic to that region! Look at Thai food, it's different between the south, the north, the northeast etc. We cater to a lot of Americans, especially those from California who really love our food. Even from New York, they like it too. We have to cater to the majority. We have 12 branches so we have to appeal to what the majority wants and offer the top sellers. We have tried to adapt to what people want. I am a Mexican executive chef and I will try to make special requests and stuff not on the menu. You can ask me!

I had a woman tell me she didn't care for our soft corn tortillas which we make from imported corn using the nixtamal method. She grew up with tortillas using maseca which is instant corn flour mix. It's like using real potatoes for mashed potatoes or instant mash in a box. It's how she grew up. She said she would come back to show me how to make chili con carne. Everyone has their own ideas. Why do some people think they know more about Mexican food than a trained chef from Mexico?! I will always make a dish for any guest the way they like it. Just ask for me and happy to do so if I'm at the location.

Chef Checkie is from Michoacán which is known for carnitas, a slow-roasted pork dish. Just as som tam is famous in Isaan, this is famous in Mexico. And just as som tam is different in different parts of Isaan, so is Mexican food different in different parts of Mexico.

So what are the challenges making Mexican food here?

We use top grade beef. Good beef is readily available in the US but here we import it from Australia. We have chilies imported from Mexico. A Mexican avocado is going to taste different from an Australian or New Zealand avocado. Everything else is local. Tomatoes here just don't taste the same. Sorry, but Thai tomatoes just aren't great. The colour, the flavor…no! Tomatoes in the US are fresh and juicy, but not here! Even something as simple as the cilantro and the onions taste different here…so Mexican food here will never taste exactly the same as home. In Mexico, you get an aroma from these ingredients when you hold them at a distance from your nose but with the Thai-grown you can hold it right up to your nose and hardly smell it! The jalapenos we get are only available at a certain time of year. Cheese is many times the price here than it is in the US and a lot of people are always comparing the price of our food compared to the US. What they don't realise is that rent here is higher, good quality meat is much more expensive and avocados, cheese and sour cream are all so expensive! The actual costs are really high given that we source quality ingredients.

Chef Checkie, left, and Chef Luis, right.

So you also run the kitchen at Margarita Storm?

Margarita Storm was born because boss wanted to introduce some of the dishes I cooked which were based on recipes I learned at restaurants in America, and so Boss Greg started Margarita Storm.

Are there a lot of Mexicans in Bangkok? Is there a Mexican community here?

It's very small. I heard the embassy say there might be 100 Mexicans here. We've had Mexicans come in and have a birthday here.

Today, everyone is a restaurant critic. You have a couple of plaques here showing Sunrise Tacos is ranked excellent on Trip Advisor. What do you think about these? I ask this because I'm known for being no fan of these review sites.

Some reviews could be people from who are not real. Maybe 7 out of 10 are real but sometimes people write stuff that is so inaccurate I wonder if they've ever been here! Someone wrote that our guacamole is watery but we actually used imported avocados and they had eaten the free guacamole sauce, and not the actual guacamole which is chunky and creamy.

I know some chefs get temperamental…are you like that when things don't go your way?! Are you animated in the kitchen?!

You know, always the customer has a reason for saying what they do. You have to try and make them happy. With the staff, sometimes they make things not quite right so you have to be nice to them. I have never sworn in the kitchen nor raised my voice because I was taught a different way…so I am not really like Gordon Ramsay!

Sunrise Tacos Facebook

Quote of the week comes from a Thai lady, "The reason many foreign guys have problems with Thai women is that they place an inordinate amount of emphasis on the lady's sexual ability, and consider little else."

Reader's story of the week
comes from Mega, "Around The Traps: August – September in South-East Asia".

The Bangkok Post profiled the British ambassador, Mark Kent.

Brits name Thailand as the country they are now most afraid of visiting.

The TAT has ambitious plans and hopes to attract 50 million visitors to Thailand by 2018.

American author Jake Needham who writes about crime fiction in Asia is interviewed on a New Zealand crime fiction
website.

The number of visitors to Pattaya is expected to drop about 10% this year.

A Reuters photo essay looks at the growing anger in north-eastern Thailand.

Ask Sunbelt Asia Legal

Sunbelt Asia's legal department is here to answer your questions relating to legal issues and the law in Thailand. Send any legal questions you may have to me and I will pass them on to Sunbelt Legal and their response will run in a future column. You can contact Sunbelt's legal department
directly for all of your legal needs.

Question 1: Assume an American man, resident in California (a no-fault, community property state) marries a Thai lady in California, USA. They then primarily live in Thailand, but do not get married there. If a divorce were to occur, would it purely be a California divorce issue, since there was no marriage in Thailand? What if a Thai marriage occurs after the California marriage? Which divorce rules prevail?

Sunbelt Legal responds: Legal marriages in the US are recognised in Thailand and vice versa so any legally recognised marriage would be valid in either country. Divorce laws would depend on where you choose to get divorced. Thai law specifies that any assets held before marriage are the property of that person and are not marital property, but all assets gained after the marriage are marital property and would be split 50 : 50. If a foreign man and his Thai wife purchase land in Thailand then the man would have to sign a document relinquishing all hold on the land as marital property and it would be the sole property of the Thai wife since foreigners are not allowed to own land in Thailand.

Is this the new Stickman HQ? Is the website operated from the back of a van?

This week marks 6 months since I left Bangkok, yet the column continues much the same as when I was living in Bangkok; website traffic remains strong and there haven't been many complaints. I do the best I can from afar and overall I'm generally happy with how things are going. Thinking about how things would be if I were still in Bangkok, I wonder if I might have ended it. I had reached a point where I needed a change and leaving Bangkok probably extended the column's life. It's nice that website numbers remain solid and despite being almost 10,000 km away from Bangkok that you continue to stop by. Thanks for your support and for continuing to tune in!

Your Bangkok commentator,

Stick