Bangkok Gogo Bars, From The Inside

FROM STICK'S INBOX (These are emails from readers and what is written here was not written by Stick.) Preference may be given to emails which refer to the previous week's column.

EMAIL OF THE WEEK – Old hat not for new expats.

Now that I've moved here, the last place I feel like going is the girly bars. As a tourist I used to love the p4p bar scene but now that I have lived here long enough to notice what's going on, there is way too much other good stuff happening in Bangkok to bother with the old-hat crap. That scene no longer caters for expats anyway, unless you're Japanese. With hundreds of the world's finest and coolest bars and restaurants opening up in Thonglor, Ekamai, Sathorn and elsewhere, names like Washington Square, Cowboy, Nana and Patpong are old hat for new expats. My new Thai colleagues also earn almost as much as I do these days so there's every reason to hang out with them with more chance of pulling a real girlfriend who actually has something in common rather than the ever-declining fake "girlfriend experience" of the Vietnam War days. Relatively new, happening and vibey publications like BK Magazine are read by more people (both Thai and expat alike) than the old p4p blogs. The old girly bar scene depended on an inequality that no longer applies. Many expats (who are younger) work / party with a breed of modern, aspirational Thais who show us where the cool spots are in one of the world's great cities.

The vibe is better elsewhere.

With respect to the state of gogo bars in Bangkok, I think you raise an interesting point. Notwithstanding the political issues in Bangkok, there are still plenty of expats in the city and the expats I hang out with do not spend the same amount of time in the gogos as they previously did. The reason why is they are bored with gogos (but they do still like to drop down to Pattaya every now and then). I tend to be in Thailand 3 times a year and on more recent trips, I hardly spend time in Bangkok gogos. Looking at my last visit in December and January, I barely visited any gogos (and the ones I did visit were very specific and intentional i.e. there were specific reasons for going such as an event or promotion that had previously been advertised). I still did plenty of drinking but it was at the various pubs, pool halls, and even occasionally at a sports bar. To be honest, those seem to be the places with the better vibe these days. A lot of Bangkok gogos are starting to feel like dinosaurs in terms of format etc, notwithstanding any renovations they make. They need to try to recapture the atmosphere.

With so many tourists, there's no need for customer service.

When creating a business, the basic business model is to obtain and then retain customers, i.e. customer service. Existing customers are much cheaper to keep than to advertise for new ones. Your idea of a foreign manager in the gogo bars is an excellent one. Of course they would need to have some authority because it would be meaningless if I had a problem in their bar and after approaching this foreign manager he could do nothing. So he would need to be a problem solver as well. A buffer, if you will. I believe the bars reflect the downward opinion Thais have of foreigners even though foreigners represent a large segment of their income. It makes sense the gogo bars are partial to the tourist because that's how Thais feel. Take the tourists' money then the tourists fly home, but that doesn't typically work in successful business models. Thais have been able to get away with this attitude towards expats because of the flood of tourists in years past. Different story now, but don't get your hopes up. If they are good to expats now and tourist numbers increase, they will treat us like crap again. That's the way, no insight or foresight at all.

No positives in the Bangkok gogo bars.

My best guess is that Bangkok's gogo bars are already in a death spiral, and rigor mortis will set in soon. Of course a few bars will remain, there will always be enough gullible tourists and hardcore sexpats to support a handful of establishments no matter how poor the service and attitudes of staff and management. My last visit to Nana Plaza was well over one year ago, only because I needed to stay overnight to visit my embassy. After walking the gauntlet of Nigerian drug dealers on lower Suhkumvit, I perched myself at the Golden Bar, opposite the Nana Plaza entrance and ordered a beer with glass and ice. The surly waitress shuffled over with my beer but no glass with ice, so I smiled and repeated that I wanted a glass with ice. She made that Thai exclamation "Ow!", looked at me with total disgust and again shuffled away. I eventually received a glass, but no ice. I people watched for a while, but one beer was enough. I paid with exact change and left. I did a quick walk through Nana Plaza, then took the skytrain to a Thai establishment with pretties (eye candy) and the (mostly) great service that Thais extend to their fellow countrymen and the few foreigners that wander in. The foreign nightlife scene will pretty much die out in Bangkok. It's a function of economics, perception and staff recruitment. Astronomical rents and salaries mean drink prices will continue to soar. Suhkumvit is deep in the heart of Bangkok, the capital city of a proud nation where perception is everything. I mean, come on, how long will the Thais continue to tolerate the riff raff associated with Nana Plaza? And bar staff, don't get me started. Thailand has zero unemployment, anyone with a pulse can get a job – and they know it. No decent, self-respecting woman will subject herself to the indignities of working as a bargirl. What is left are mostly the dregs of Thai society: the mentally disturbed, lazy, drug-addicted, criminally-minded, opportunistic women looking for the big score. Yeah, harsh words but that's how I see it, in Bangkok any way. Bangkok expats will continue their weekend trips to Pattaya and the industry there probably has more life left. Most women prostitute themselves out of desperation, some do it for easy money and a few are trafficked and forced in to it. Thailand is moving forward economically and women simply have more choices. It happened in post war Germany, Japan and Korea. We see it now here in Thailand and it's beginning even in the Philippines. Beats me where the new hot spots will be, but they will most certainly be in countries poorer than Thailand.

Prices out of hand.

Prices are finally catching up with the gogos and it looks like things are finally coming to a head in Bangkok. For several years, serious mongers and expats alike have been saying the same thing, prices are getting too high. The cost of a night out, combined with drinks, lady drinks, barfines, and a rent a gogo gal have become ridiculous. For one third the price I can frequent an establishment where I can enjoy a cold beverage, with good service, and then grab a freelancer. I am not a newbie tourist anymore, and as I said to a gal in Nana the other night, why would I pay your price when I can get a nice gal on the street for 1,000 baht? Even she understood my reasoning. And don't kid yourself, Pattaya is a shadow of itself this year with many gogos near empty nightly. It won't be long before you are writing the same column about Pattaya.

Ladyboy labeling.

In addition to the idea of colored neck lanyards to identify coyote dancers, how about a symbol outside of every gogo bar (the biological circle with either an arrow or cross) so we punters can tell if it is a ladyboy bar or not. I've been to Nana Plaza many times but still get confused.

The party's at Pattaya!

Last month for the first time ever in my 35 years in and out of Thailand and having spent a total of at least 2 years there, I spent 3 days in Pattaya. The last 12 years I hardly went to any bar as my teeruk keeps me busy, but when I did I felt being in the wrong place. How different was Pattaya! It reminded me of Bangkok 20 or 30 years ago in many ways, much cheaper than Bangkok too and really fun to do some bar hopping. I really regret having spent so many boring weekends in Bangkok in the old days instead of taking a bus from Ekamai!

Making the rounds at Soi Cowboy this week, it wasn't until we'd been through a few bars that I realised something was off, something was very different to usual. I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but something just didn't feel quite right. And then it struck me….almost all the customers in all the bars visited were sitting alone. It was quite an odd sight when you think about it, sitting in one of the most popular bars in Soi Cowboy with perhaps 25 or 30 customers, but few had a lady sitting beside them. And as the night went on hardly any dancers approached customers. Almost exactly the same scene played out in all the bars I visited – Tilac, Cactus, Bacarra and Lighthouse. In each bar there were more dancers than customers and apart from Tilac which had a handful of coyotes, it wasn't like these were bars full of coyotes who tend to be more standoffish than regular gogo dancers. I can only speculate that the working girls of Bangkok are making decent money (salary and / or multiple sponsors) that they don't feel any desire to approach and entertain customers. And to think some claim the industry isn't changing at all!

Did Bacarra and Yanhee have a falling out? The dancers on the top floor of Bacarra are selected to a specific archetype – slim, shortish and young(-looking) girls who are top heavy, yet this week there was clearly much less silicone in the bar.

If you would like to know what Soi Cowboy was like back in the '90s, you can still experience it as an authentic slice of Cowboy survives and continues to this day. Stepping inside the long-running single shophouse Cactus for the first time in ages, it is just as I remember it without any apparent changes – an odd design with a small stage in the middle of the bar, and seating on either side (which is unusual in single shophouse gogo bars which tend to have the dance floor against one wall). Cactus doesn't try to compete with the bigger, more modern bars on the soi and is content to do its own thing. It had a following and many of its fans like the fact that it's a throwback to the '90s. All the girls dance in the buff, most are a tad on the plump side, but they smile and for the most part they seem content. The music is older than the girls – and the girls aren't young, and the decor looks like it hasn't changed in years. For a walk down memory lane, Cactus is worth a drink or two.

I used to go to Tilac at least once a week, often twice – and that lasted for a good few years. 5 years ago I stuck my neck out and said it was the best bar of its type in Bangkok. But no bar stays great forever and despite still being wildly popular, Tilac 2014 is much like this year's Manchester United, and cannot compare with years gone by. I would use two H-words to describe many the girls on stage – hard and heavy – and in the bar industry that's not a good combination. You do have to admire Tilac's management for the bar doesn't suffer the sort of staff turnover that other bars do and the girls enjoy working there. The problem is that this is one industry in which you don't want your employees to stick around forever!

The disco on the ground floor of the Nana Hotel has changed name almost as often as a Bangkok playboy changes girlfriends. To Nana Liquid, back to Nana Disco, to Mai Peng, it doesn't matter what the sign at the entrance says, the venue hasn't managed to cash in on the prime location on the ground floor of the world's most famous sex tourist hotel, right across the road from the self-styled world's largest adult playground. Mai Peng Disco closed a month ago and is not expected to reopen until around the middle of the year – and when it does, expect another new name.

Bangkok Quiz Masters and Flann O'Brien's on Silom Road (the bar that used to be known as O'Reilly's) are bringing the pub quiz back to Silom from April 1st. You can join in every Tuesday at 7:45 PM for fun, prizes and a revolving jackpot. Entry is free.

If the farang manager of Club Electric Blue ever decides he'd like a new job perhaps he can try out as a professional rugby player. He impressed all in the soi this past week with his rugby tackling skills – and has grazed knees to show for it. An Aussie customer had run up a 12,000 baht bill in the Patpong bar and was a little worse for wear when presented with the bill. He explained to service staff that he didn't have that much money on him and would go to the ATM to get some cash and return to settle the bill. The manager had a bad feeling about it and followed the guy out in to the soi. Outside the bar the cheeky Aussie does a runner, but a short way up the soi he is tackled by our multi-talented bar manager who escorts the Aussie to the ATM machine where cash is withdrawn and the bill settled. You've got to have a full array of skills to be a Bangkok bar boss!

Snatch and grab thefts by passing motorbikes aren't considered common in Bangkok like they are in other parts of the region, right? Think again! Last week there were 2 reports from Sukhumvit soi 16 of women walking along the soi reasonably late at night, down beyond the Foodland branch, whose bag was grabbed by the passenger on the back of a passing motorbike. In the first incident a Thai woman lost her bag and all its contents. In the second incident, a foreign woman amazingly managed to hang on to her bag as the thieves zoomed off. She did go crashing down to the ground and suffered cuts and bruises, but nothing too serious. Thais in the soi claim it's the work of slum dwellers from the nearby Klong Toey slum high on ya-ba (methamphetamine) but who really knows. It's a reminder to be careful and consider that as safe as downtown Bangkok feels to the average foreigner, incidents like this do happen. Perhaps the advice given to visitors to Saigon where motorbike snatch and grabs is a big problem should be considered – if slinging possessions over your shoulder, make sure it is over your shoulder that is away from the road.

There is much debate about the prices the girls charge for a naughty these days and a report this week from a good friend and genuine old Asia hand who resides in deepest, darkest Isaan shows that steep price inflation is not limited to foreigner bars in the heart of Bangkok. In an Isaan province that borders Laos, the going rates are 1,300 / 2,000 for short time / long time. It's not that long ago that girls in that part of the country commonly asked 500 baht for on the premises fun. Not any more!

Last week's opening piece where I pointed out some of the common failings of Bangkok gogo bars and suggested how they could perhaps consider replicating what is going on in Pattaya gave me reason to reflect on the industry. Another big issue is service staff who are often rude, pushy, belligerent and talk to customers in a way they should never be talked to. From the way they bother you to choose a girl to sit with you (when that may be the last thing you want) to the way they ask for a tip to the way they openly sneer if you tip less than they believe they deserve, service at times borders on insulting. Many bars need to do something about service staff – and that starts with the mamasan. Ah, perhaps that's where the problem lies…

The term gig became popular in Thailand perhaps several years ago and means fxxk buddy or friend with benefits, a concept that was largely unknown in Thailand until that time, and a concept that has proliferated in Thailand since Internet dating and online hookups have exploded and become wildly popular. In a true gig relationship, there is zero expectation of money and zero expectation of fidelity. If she wants money or one party wants commitment, it's not a gig.

It took me 4 years living in Thailand to discover fresh lychees, now one of my favourite fruits. And it took me a remarkable 16 years to discover the Marian plum, pictured above. Now is the season for the orange-coloured, egg-shaped and -sized fruit that has a similar colour, flavour and texture to mangoes. They currently sell for around 100 baht / kg, have numerous health benefits and are absolutely delicious. If you like mangoes, you'll love them!

A reader leaving Thailand has 3 Thailand-centric website businesses for sale – Mrhomethai.com, thaicomparecars.com and sashasthaidating.com. He'd ideally like to sell them as a package of 3 going concerns for 1.9 million baht, but would entertain offers for each individually. Interested parties should email me and I will forward your email to the owner.

Is there anything worse than customers who threaten business owners with going to TripAdvisor (or other online review sites) if they don't get their own way? From downtown Bangkok comes a report from a popular restaurant which has on its menu a bottomless bowl of chips and sauces. A customer ordered this and proceeded to spend the next 9 hours availing himself of unlimited chips while using the restaurant's free wi-fi. That in itself is not so bad, but he had a hygiene issue and customers sitting near him were put off by the foul odour coming from him – some even mentioning this to staff. Eventually, some 9 hours later, the manager casually mentioned to the customer that there would be a shift change and presented the customer with the bill. The inference was that the change of shift would be the end of the deal. This was not explicitly stated – the manager is much too gracious in that respect. Upon being presented with a bill for well under 100 baht, the customer spurted out that he would be writing to TripAdvisor about this! Can you believe it? Unfortunately Bangkok seems to attract these types.

And in another only in Bangkok story, a customer in the Silom branch of Sunrise Tacos this week put a proposal to the manager. He explained that he loves the food at Sunrise and that he had an idea that would be a win : win for him and for the restaurant. He would get a tattoo of the owner on his body saying Sunrise Tacos – if he could eat at Sunrise Tacos free for life. Little did this fellow know that the owner of Sunrise Tacos is a larger than life character and the tattoo would require one large block of skin! The friendly owner declined the offer.

Quote of the week, "When the Prime Minister is better looking than most of the girls in the gogo bars it's time to move on!"

Reader's story of the week comes from Anonymous, "Memo To Bangkok Gogo Bar Owners".

From Phuket is a first-hand report of the visa run from hell!

Bangkok's top IT shopping mall, Panthip Plaza, so popular with foreigners, is to get a 500 million baht facelift.

From Cambodia comes the report of a mother selling her daughter's virginity.

Diving instructors talk of money extorted from them by the authorities in Phuket.

If you've ever wondered what the Aussie / Kiwi slang bogan means, from Phuket comes a great example of a bogan.

Ask Sunbelt Asia Legal

Sunbelt Asia's legal department is here to answer your questions relating to legal issues and the law in Thailand. Send any legal questions you may have to me and I will pass them on to Sunbelt Legal and their response will run in a future column. You can contact Sunbelt's legal department
directly for all of your legal needs.

Question 1: Some farang amateur musicians here in Udon Thani want to play music in public places but without work permits. It's illegal – we could be arrested, fined or deported. We're all retired and don't want payment. Some are married to Thais so we have differing visa situations. We want to be able to play with Thais as well as farangs. It's not even legal for us to play for charities. We can play legally at private parties but what constitutes a private party? We've been told that if we hold a taxpayer ID card we can be hired by the hour by, say, a restaurant where the owner would deduct tax, send it to the Tax Dept and that would be legal. However, we don't believe it. We want ideas to legally get around the situation e.g. what if we hire a bar for a night, call it a private party by invitation only, give away printed invitations at the door and people bring their own beer which they could purchase on the sidewalk outside the bar or at the bar next door?

Sunbelt Asia Legal Advisers responds: It is possible to obtain a one-day work permit from your local Labour Office (with support from the potential employer) for a special event. They issue the work permit on a case by case basis. It is best to check with your local Work Permit Office to see what they want in order to apply for one. Please be aware that a person on a retirement visa extension cannot obtain a one-day work permit as they are not allowed to work at all.

Question 2: I am confused whether the financial requirement for a marriage visa is 40,000 baht per month in income and 400,000 baht in your bank account or just one of either. Internet searches
give different answers – some say both, some say either of these!

Sunbelt Asia Legal Advisers responds: The answer is you can use one or the other or a combination of both. You can show 40,000 baht a month in income, or 400,000 baht in the bank. Alternatively, you can show a combination of the two that will make up the difference. For example, let's say you receive a monthly income of 20,000 baht a month. The officer will assume that your expected fixed income is 240,000 baht a year. Therefore you will need to show 160,000 baht in your savings account to make up the difference between the 240,000 from income and the required 400,000 baht. The funds must be transferred from your offshore bank account in to your Thai bank account and will need to be in your Thai bank account for 2 months prior to the initial application for the extension. If you are renewing your extension then the money must be in your Thai bank account for 3 months prior to application. Sunbelt Asia has extensive experience in helping people obtain their one year extensions based on marriage and can help walk you through the procedure if you are in Bangkok.

It's hard to remember a column opener where readers were unanimous with the main points made. Even the most popular weekly column openers ever like Cyberbullying & Karma,
Arsenal Alex and tales of sleuthing, which generated huge email responses elicited comments from the odd detractor. Not
last week's column. Not only was there a massive email response, readers also penned their own articles about the state of Bangkok's gogo bars which have been published in the readers' submissions section.

The message is clear – punters want bar owners and managers to understand the issues in the hope that attempts can be made to address them, turn things around and maybe, just maybe, the magic might return.

Your Bangkok commentator,

Stick