The Stick Girls

Failed Relationships And The Benefits Of Hindsight, The Stick Girls

The old chestnut that you can take the girl out of the bar but can't take the bar out of the girl has much truth in it. It's just as true that the problems many guys trying to make a relationship work with a former bargirl face are not necessarily
because she was a bargirl at all, but simply that each comes from a culture with different values and which look at things from completely different perspectives.

All of the Thai women I have dated were lovely in their own way, but invariably I found that I would inevitably reach a point where there would be some sort of obstacle we were unable to overcome, something which she, or I, dug our feet in on and were
unwilling to compromise on.

Dating Thai women, the difficulties we face and the common issues we experience come up over and over again.

Meet some of the Stick girls.

The Cafeteria Worker

She had big, round eyes that positively glowed when she smiled and it was a chance conversation at a bus stop, back in the days before the skytrain, that was the start of what was to be my first relationship with a Thai, a relationship that was on and
off for several months.

I was a very different guy back then. New to Bangkok and still learning the ropes, the relationship with the cafeteria worker who spoke little English was my first where the language we used was Thai. I was earning a modest 35,000 baht per month and was
very much a homebody, preferring to explore the city by day and spend quiet nights in.

From a modest background and with the most basic education, just 6 years, she had been living in Bangkok since she was 12 years old, her mother having brought her down from her native Khon Kaen when her parents split. At 19 years of age, 10 my junior,
the age gap was not really that significant. But her age was. At 19 she was still a teenager!

In some ways she was old school Thai and when she came over to my condo she would sort things out, put papers and magazines in tidy piles and clean the place, from emptying out the fridge and wiping down every surface, to making sure plants were well
watered to mopping the floor, even if it had already been mopped that day. She went through this same routine almost every time she came over without fail, and often to my protests that the place was clean already – which she never believed, taking
great pride in wiping down surfaces and showing me dust on the rag she used!

She was pleasant enough to have around and fun to do basic things with like going to the movies, or grabbing a Thai meal. But for other things, like meeting and going out with my Western friends or eating Western food, there was always a problem. She
loved the idea of going to a Western restaurant, but when we actually did these things, she never really felt comfortable and found herself out of her depth. Ultimately she didn't enjoy herself as she thought she would which in turn hampered
my enjoyment.

The relationship lasted many months but eventually I called it off after realising we had very, very little in common.

Lesson Learned: Thai women from a modest background are often starry eyed by our world, but may struggle to fit in to it. Thai women aged under 20 are still girls, and often don't mature
until much later.

The Hairdresser

The stunner from Phitsanulok was probably the most attractive girlfriend I ever had. I remember popping around the corner to visit my mate WhosYourDaddy at his place. He couldn't take his eyes off her!

We met in a Thai bar on what was her last weekend in Bangkok. It was a real Thai-style venue – dimly lit with loud music and nothing in English. A pal and I were the only two foreigners in the place and from the looks we were getting, we felt like we
might have been the only two who had even been there.

It was her last weekend in Bangkok, a girls' night out, but one which was to be interrupted by a young Kiwi intent on getting her number and who wouldn't take no for an answer!

She relented with the phone number, we hit it off and quickly became an item. I always thought we were good together. I was more comfortable with Thai having taken a year off to study it full-time, and with an age gap of just 4 years, we had plenty in
common.

She'd been running a hair salon in Bang Na with a friend but fancied going it alone and had set up a new salon in the Bangpa In area, some 80 odd kilometres north of Bangkok.

Her salon was in an industrial area, surrounded by factories, factories and more factories. I had more free time than she, so it would usually be me who made the journey to see her. There was little to do in Bangpa In so we'd often take the train
up to Ayuthaya and wander around the temples, or watch boat races on the river or find interesting cafes or riverside restaurants to spend time in. Having grown up in Phitsanulok, she preferred the quiet of Bangpa In to the craziness of Bangkok.

We lived less than 100 km apart from each other and we each lived close to the local train station. An hour and a half and a measly 15 baht later and I would be at her place.

I always looked forward to seeing her but found it frustrating that we could only see each other once a week. And while it was no great distance, the travel soon became a chore. She would come down to Bangkok once every so often but it too became a chore
and she never liked being away from the business she was trying to build up. We were both young and neither of us was ready to commit to anything long-term. As the travel became a chore for each of us, things just petered out. Had she stayed in
Bangkok, who knows?

Lesson Learned: Distance relationships are difficult without genuine long-term commitment on each side and even then they can be difficult.

The Office Girl

By the time I met the office girl, I guess I was as attractive as I ever would be. I was earning good money, had a great pad, a busy social life and I knew much of Bangkok like the back of my hand.

The office girl was great in almost every way. She was not just attractive, but had a sporty physique. Unlike many Thai women who look like they're in good shape, the office girl really was. Her muscles were firm and not that slim look but flabby
feel I dislike so much. She spoke very good English, was fun to be around, had great social skills and fit in well with friends. She had a genuine appreciation for some of the finer things in life and was not needy, happy to dine at a high-end
restaurant as she was eating on the street. She could fit in with any crowd, from hi-so to lo-so to everything in between. And she was clever too.

We connected online, met for a few drinks and things developed. Unlike many office workers in Bangkok, she had weekends off and as the relationship blossomed, we took many trips around the country – to the beach, to see famous temples and markets and
even had a very enjoyable trip to her hometown. She was easy to be with, a most important quality I look for in a woman, and one not easily found in Thai women, at least in my experience.

Despite earning a reasonable salary, she chose not to spend so much on accommodation. Her room was modest and she started to spend more and more time at my place. I must have been blind to what had been happening, because one day I realised that there
were more of her clothes in the wardrobe than mine! She still had her own place of course, but as she spent more and more time at my place, it seemed that each trip back to her room would see more of her stuff shifted my way. I was happy enough
with her staying over a few nights a week, but when I realised the amount of stuff she had brought over I started to become uncomfortable.

While she was still a couple of years shy of 30, she wanted to cement the relationship. She wanted a ring on her finger. I had just come out of a long-term relationship and was not ready for anything serious. Looking back at it now, I had allowed things
to get too serious and for which I was largely to blame. She would moot a future together which I would dismiss with casual abandon and no doubt a look of horror on my face!

She was very sensitive and the mere thought that we would break up, or the mere indication that I was not looking at things long-term, often sent her into tears. No tantrums, no theatrics, just tears. Perhaps it was because she had had a long-term Thai
boyfriend who things didn't work out with and she didn't want a repeat of that, but when she saw that marriage was not on the agenda, she called things off.

Lesson Learned: If a woman is ready to marry, either marry her or cut her free so she can find someone who is genuinely marriage-minded.

The Student

The only intellectual equal I've dated in Thailand and a lady I really expect to go places, she stood out from all the other local women I have known.

Her English was totally fluent and she preferred to speak with me in English than Thai. She was well into her 20s and while there was an age gap it was nothing significant. She was still at university and planned to be for a good few more years to come.

She had a few more years of study ahead of her and put her studies ahead of everything else, something I encouraged even if it created difficulties for "us". She was very bright, and she knew it. She would often talk of previous boyfriends who
had "disappointed her", often a reference to their intellectual capacity, or lack of it. She craved intelligent conversation and could talk about any issue – and I mean ANY issue – without ever getting sensitive or uptight as so many
Thai women do.

She was well supported by her wealthy parents upcountry to the tune of 20,000 – 25,000 baht per month. Our fulfilling but ultimately short-lived relationship ended when I found her Achilles heel. She hated it, and simply couldn't deal with it, when
I called her on her avariciousness and wastefulness with her parents' money. 20K – 25K baht a month should be plenty for a mid-20s Thai student to live on but she was always asking for (and getting) more.

It all came to a head one night when we were dining at my favourite buffet. She declared that the huge choice of food on offer was inadequate and that in addition to the buffet, she was going to order not just one, but two dishes from the regular menu!
There we were, at one of the finest buffets in a city known for fine hotel buffets where even the fussiest diner could find plenty of quality food to absolutely stuff themselves full with. It all came to head when the two dishes she ordered arrived
and she did not touch them, not a single bite, declaring them inedible!

Lesson Learned: Avarice is unacceptable!

The Accountant

Another online darling, I wasn't looking for anyone at the time but she pursued me, we met a few times and things developed at a time when I would probably have been better off single.

An accountant with a big name company, she was financially independent which made a change from so many of the women Western guys date in Thailand. She'd had her own businesses, had a new car all paid for and lived at a downtown address.

She was an impressive woman, elegant in her appearance, confident in her work and demure in relationships. Hailing from the central region, she really did bridge the gap between living a modern lifestyle while maintaining many of the traits and virtues
of a traditional Thai woman. She had a remarkable awareness of the lifestyles of Western guys in Thailand, so much so that I joked to a mate that she must be a Stickman reader! It was all the stranger given that I was her first foreign boyfriend.

On paper she had almost everything going for her, but whenever we went out, or whenever we did something, it tended to be rather boring. I remember once when she turned up at my place unexpected, early on a Saturday morning, and I clearly remember thinking
to myself that this was going to be one dull day. I made some excuses that I had existing plans – I didn't – and not long after I ended things with her.

I always thought she would make someone a great wife and would be a fantastic mother, but that wasn't what I was looking for.

Lesson Learned: Traditional Thai women might be ideal wife material, but some lack that spark and excitement that some of us crave in a relationship. Or maybe it's just that accountants really
are boring!

Last week's photo

Where was this photo taken?

FROM STICK'S INBOX (These are emails from readers and what is written here was not written by Stick.) Preference may be given to emails which refer to the previous week's column.

EMAIL OF THE WEEK – Calling a spade a spade!

In the broom cupboard at Panthip.

Name and shame the buyers.

Struggling Samui.

With do-gooder types, anything is possible!

When 50K baht buys you NOTHING!

A disadvantage of white skin.

As if proof was needed that Cowboy is very much the expats' favourite playground, on Tuesday night when the heavens opened around 6:20 PM and the rain kept falling until well after 9:00, the soi was dead, totally dead and even
the most popular bars had but a handful of customers. At 8:15 Tilac had perhaps 4 or 5 customers, and the Dollhouse had just 2 on the ground floor – me and a mate. It will take much more than rain to keep guys on holiday away from the bars but
for expats, rain between 6:00 and 7:30 or so can be the difference between staying in or going out. If it rains earlier, or later, it has less bearing. Bar owners hate it when it pours at that time, knowing they're probably going to have
a quiet night. The rain was so heavy at one point that some guys who braved the elements had a tuktuk deliver them right to the bar's door.

Club Bunnies in Nana Plaza opened briefly on Friday night, but just to check lights and run a series of equipment tests. It looks like they are close to opening. The venue will feature live music with (apparently) a Filipino band. Honestly, could the
new owners have possibly chosen a smaller bar for a live band!?

After many delays, Carlsberg draught will finally be available at some pubs in Bangkok from this coming Wednesday. It is expected to be available at some Pattaya pubs a few days after the Bangkok launch.

Sukhumvit soi 5 is becoming much more colourful these days, and you will see no more colour than in the small, open bar with a spacious area out front, just next to Foodland, adjacent to the steps going up to Country Road.

Single Western males are once again the profile that the men in tight brown uniforms are targeting at the Ekamai bus station with particular attention paid to those getting off the Sex Tourist Express – the bus that runs between Bangkok and Pattaya. Most
believe that these illegal searches are targeting drugs but one Stickman reader this week reports that they went much further to include looking at all of the photos on the memory card in his camera, which suggests they might be looking for homemade
porn, which is kind of ironic given what has been reported as being available on Sukhumvit Road in the mainstream media recently. If you
wish to avoid the possibility of being searched, the bus back from Pattaya stops at the Onut skytrain station, about 2 km east of Ekamai, so you could jump off there and either get on the skytrain or jump in a taxi without going all the way to
Ekamai. The searches are easily avoided – but we shouldn't have to think like this.

Bangkok Beat in soi 7/1 has a happy hour until 10 PM nightly with beers at 110 baht and gin / vodka / whiskey / bourbon at 130 baht, which may be cheaper than regular hour prices but el cheapo Stickman doesn't think they sound like happy hour prices! That said, it is happy hour all night long on Monday nights with those prices through until close. And if you're on a tight budget, Chang beer can be had for 90 baht if you can stomach it!

Pretty Lady Bar at Nana Plaza will hold a "Full Moon Party" on Saturday 23rd, with sexy shows, a special dance show and free food offered. The wheel of fortune will spin all night, with lots of chances to win drinks and bar fines. All are welcome
to join the fun!

The obligatory vegetarian festival visit to Chinatown this week saw me wandering some of the dark allies and back sois, including those around adjacent to Texas Massage where dollied up girls linger. It's horribly seedy and largely free of foreigners
which is probably because most of the girls don't have the Isaan look which most farang naughty boys seem to insist on.

Following on from comments in a recent column about the very real possibility that there won't be any live international rugby coverage on TV in Thailand, checking the Australia TV schedule for the October 30 fixture between the All Blacks and the
Wallabies in Hong Kong would seem to confirm our worst nightmare – the match does not appear on the schedule.

The section of road between Beach Road and Second Road at the start of Walking Street is under construction and traffic cannot pass by. For that reason, traffic is being diverted from Soi 13/4 over to Second Road, with the section of Second Road between
13/4 and Pattaya Tai having been converted temporarily to accommodate traffic going in both directions. This is causing serious congestion in that part of Second Road, but is necessary so that traffic can access Pattaya Tai and Third Road. Construction
work includes traffic lights for pedestrians all along Beach Road and Second Road, stretch all the way from Walking Street up to Pattaya Nua, yeah, all the way! We know how hazardous it can be to cross over these roads and sometimes you can feel
like a chicken trying haphazardly to get to the other side. It might get easier but for sure, this is going to cause further
traffic problems in a city in which traffic problems seem to be getting worse and worse.

Crossbar has introduced a new "pub grub" menu which consists of traditional old pub grub favourites, such as scampi in a basket, chicken in a basket, ploughman's lunch, cottage pie along with a new favourite tandoori chicken with salad,
which has proved very popular.

Some readers seem to think that I am seeing things when I report the number of Indians visiting Thailand and suggest that I have an anti-Indian bias. Not at all. I merely report what I see. No doubt the number of Indians visiting Thailand is going to
surge even further with Air Asia announcing flights commencing between India and Thailand from December 1st, daily between Bangkok and Calcutta and 4 times a week between the Thai capital and Delhi.

I am hearing horror stories about the run from Bangkok to Nongkhai, the main road up into Isaan, and one I used to take regularly. Stories are coming through of Westerners being stopped up to 4 times at different checkpoints and being accused of doing
speeds they weren't, or possibly that their vehicle is not even capable of. The worst spot seems to be the run from Korat to Khon Kaen although just south of Udon Thani is another hot spot.

A reminder about catching a taxi in Bangkok. It is generally not a good idea to get a taxi parked outside a hotel. These guys are waiting for the first time visitor who does not know how things work and will invariably offer a fixed fare ride which usually
works out at anywhere from 2 – 4 times what it would have cost had the meter been turned on. Taxis are ubiquitous in Bangkok and
even in the wet season it isn't nearly as difficult to hail a cab as it once was – so there's absolutely no reason to use these guys!

Reports in the Pattaya press indicate that a foreigner is assisting the police in their recent raids on some Soi 6 bars. The modus operandi is the same every time with the foreigner going into the bar, finding a girl, taking her upstairs, HAVING SEX WITH
HER, paying her with marked banknotes, after which the boys in brown enter the venue and arrest all and sundry working in and associated with the venue. That a foreigner is involved, and that he is availing himself of the girls, albeit paying
them, has a few expats rather annoyed, to say the least!

What's with these weird things that Thai women – seems to be more a working girl thing than anything – are attaching to their eyelashes? There's this recent trend where some Thai women get their nails done and rather than just
having them painted, they get these little cheap fake diamonds and the like mounted on their nails. Well, it's the same thing, but they have them mounted on their eyelashes, as per the girl in the photo below. They seem to be quite a recent
thing. They don't do anything for me…

Quote of the week comes from a regular reader in Hua Hin, "Thailand is like the young, beautiful girlfriend – you know she's going to fuck you over but you can't bring yourself to leave until she finally does it."

Reader's story of the week comes from Mr. Anonymous and is titled, "The Nana Ghost".

A Pattaya bargirl is arrested after being in cahoots with a South African in a scam.

A South African newspaper reports on the new Pattaya and how its shedding the sex tourism label.

The Washington Times reports on the recent spate of bombings in Bangkok.

CNNGo profiles where Thai sex workers go for English lessons as well as counselling.

Ever wondered what happens to former Miss Thailands? Miss Thailand 2005 is now a pilot with Air Asia!

The Bangkok Post reports that porn of every variety is openly on display in Bangkok's Chinatown.

6 years without a passport, an American gets by in Phuket from the generosity and stupidity of his fellow Westerners.

Another Pattaya soi 6 bar was raided by Bangkok police this week.

A Swede alleged of producing yaba in Thailand faces the death penalty.

Ask Sunbelt Legal

Sunbelt Asia's legal department is here to answer your questions relating to legal issues and the law in Thailand. Send any legal questions you may have to me and I will pass them on to Sunbelt Legal and their response will run in a future column.
You can contact Sunbelt's legal department directly for all of your legal needs.

Question 1: I own two condos in Bangkok. Both are in my name and paid for with no finance outstanding. I live in one unit and in another unit, which is in a different building, I rent it out to an American. He has been a good
tenant until recently when we started to have some disagreements. I regret that it looks like I am going to have to invoke an eviction clause and get him out. He has become nasty and stated that I will have problems for leasing the condo to him
without a work permit and for not paying taxes on the income earned. I don't have a work permit and would not have thought this was necessary. Can you please advise me of the requirements for a Westerner renting out a condo in their own name.
I have a full contract with the tenant. Do I require a work permit? Thanks in advance.

Sunbelt responds: Renting out a condominium that you own does not require you to have a Thai work permit. According the Labour Department – Work Permit Division, renting out your property is not considered
to be "working" in Thailand and would not require you to have a work permit. That said, in accordance to the Revenue Code, as you are earning income, you are responsible for the payment of the income tax on this rental income. You are
required to declare such income which was derived from property rental(s) at year's end. If you are renting this condo to a juristic identity (i.e. a limited company) they would have be responsible to withhold 5% from the monthly rental payment
as a Corporate Withholding Tax. If you rent the property to an individual that individual (your tenant) is not required to withhold the 5% as a withholding tax.

* This does not constitute legal advice or serve as a substitute for direct legal consultation with a licensed attorney. The information is provided for educational purposes only and it may not account for the specific facts and up-to-date laws that may be applicable to each individual's situation. It does not take the place of consultations with a licensed lawyer and it does not create an attorney-client relationship between readers of the information and Sunbelt Asia, Co. Ltd. or any of its employees.

Try as I might, I could not gather much in the way of bar news, gossip or funny stories this week. I made it out and about most nights, checked in with bar owners and had a word with various contacts, and no-one had anything interesting to report or relay. Perhaps it was the rain, the nightly downpours that pushed bar takes down to levels that make bar owners cringe and working girls change venue. Just another 2, maybe 3, of weeks of rain and then we're into November and that should be the end of it for the best part of 6 months.

Your Bangkok commentator,

Stick