The Good Girls, A Few Thoughts

It has often been written on this site that the pursuit of a relationship with a lady who worked in a naughty bar is not always the wisest move. It is suggested that guys should reconsider their options, and look at ladies who have never worked in the
world’s oldest profession. But what of these so called “good girls”. Are they easy to meet? Are they receptive to approaches by farang? Read on…

Let me first of all confirm that in Thailand, 2006, many of the local women are Westerner crazy. Yep, Western guys are definitely the desired target, the biggest prize, for many a Thai woman. Don’t believe any of the nonsense that
the average good girl isn’t interested in, nor wants to be seen with, a farang guy. It’s nonsense. We are not just in favour, but very much in demand.

Meeting a nice Thai girl is easy. Thai women are quite different from their Western sisters in that if approached they are generally comfortable giving out their phone number, or accepting a guy’s number. And more often than not if
they take your phone number, they will call! (If you don’t have a mobile phone, you won’t be meeting nice women. You MUST have a mobile!)

Of course you can meet decent Thai ladies in a whole host of places, but I’d recommend against the usual haunts of internet chat sites, department stores and hotel and restaurant employees. These girls get hit on all of the time. Try
and look a little further afield. If you’re bold enough, a lady out shopping, or even a lady standing out the skytrain platform most likely won’t repel your approach. But look for the subtle signs. If you smile at her and she looks
away, don’t put her on the spot. She obviously isn’t interested. But if you do get a smile back, it's time to use your best small talk!

Of course it helps to understand why Western guys are popular with good Thai girls. There are many reasons and they range from Western guys being trendy, to Westerners being perceived to have more money, to Westerners treating women better,
to simply preferring the looks of Western guys. I mean, if many Western guys prefer the look of Thai women, does it not make sense that some Thai women may prefer Western men too? It's true, many Thai women really do prefer the way we look.
Of course, there are more than a few who have been rejected by Thai men, possibly divorced – and then they are largely invisible as far as Thai men are concerned (at last in terms of marriage).

Chatting with a Thai female friend recently, I was a little surprised when she said to me that while she quite liked me, I could never be anything to her because I was too old for her. She is 27 and I am mid-30s – but she thinks that a guy my age is too
old for her. I hate to break it to you but there are Thai women out there who ARE conscious of a guy’s age. Sure, older guys will have less problems in Thailand than in the West, but that doesn't mean that these women are not conscious
of an age gap.

So what exactly is it that Thai women like about us, at least in terms of first impressions? What can we do to make ourselves more popular with the local lasses? I would suggest moderation in all things. The average Thai woman seems to like
guys who are, for want of a better term, fairly average. Physically, Thai women tend not to like extremes. Too young, too old, too fat, too skinny – are all turn offs. OK, of course there will be some women who prefer a tall guy, others
who prefer a bodybuilder, but there are a good number who really seem to like Mr. Average most of all. A medium height, medium-build guy who has a pleasant demanour, who dresses tidily and is polite, will do very well with most Thai women.

Politeness. Now that really is a biggy. The idea of a man being gentleman is very important to Thai woman. Maintaining your composure while in the company of a lady is a big thing. The guy who loses his cool quickly, and worse still in public,
is not considered desirable at all. You’ve got to be the iceman, remain cool and calm, no matter what Bangkok may throw at you. Moaning and groaning – even if totally justified – are considered the behaviour of a woman and if you complain
about anything too much, you’ll be told you’re nee-sai poo-ying which means that you have the character of a woman, hardly a stamp of approval.

Thai women have a rather odd preference that their ideal guy will be both the funny guy, able to make them laugh and play the fool when required, but also be a poo-yai (literally an adult), but perhaps better translated as mature
and a leader.

OK, so you have met someone and have invited them out for a date. Ahh, that magic of the first date. There are a few things to consider. Unless she is the hi-so type, do not try too hard. Taking a regular girl to a fancy restaurant where
the menu is all in English – or worse still, French or Italian, will immediately put her outside her comfort zone. Not only will she not know what she is ordering, she may not even like that style of food! So if the first date involves
food, don’t be shy to play it a little conservative. A pleasant place will in all likelihood go down better than a flash joint. For example, many Thai women would like somewhere like Blue Elephant, but just as many would consider it a dreadful
waste of money, and simply too much. It's a judgment call.

Of course we've all heard stories of the chaperone. In the past it was normal for a good Thai woman to bring a friend or relative along on the first date, or even drag them along on every date for a period of time. This is however less and less common
these days. If she brings a friend then all bets are off. It changes everything, and personally, I have never been there, so no hints on that one. I can’t imagine anything more awkward, quite frankly!

Whatever you do, don’t try and jump her on the first date! She’ll in all likelihood be worried enough about what people will think about her walking with a farang, so the rule on the first date is to initiate absolutely nothing.
Don’t try and hold her hand and absolutely do not try and kiss her good night. Play it like a true gentleman. Good Thai girls are a funny breed as they will go a few dates without anything so much as brushing her arm against yours and then
bang, the floodgates open and she’ll be all over you. Insatiable may not even start to describe it.

Now that brings me to the next part. Sex. It is said that good Thai women do not start bonking until the night of their wedding. Hmmm, that used to be the case, but like chaperoned dates, is less and less common now. Mrs. Stick confirms that
almost all of her friends were bonking at university, and virtually everyone was bonking like rabbits when they started work. The notion that good Thai girls do not bonk before marriage is really no longer valid. Of course some people may argue
that if she bonks before her wedding night then she is not what could be termed a “good Thai girl”, but I would simply argue that Thailand has changed greatly over the last two decades, the last decade especially, and what were considered
the norms of the past are much less common now.

Don't forget about safe sex. There seems to be this weird pattern whereby good Thai girls will insist on a condom the very first time, and then never want to use one again. Whatever that is all about, I do not know, but like so many
things in Thailand I don’t even try and rationalise it, let alone understand it. If I do I will just end up giving myself a headache. One of my mates recently said to me that the incidence of STDs is higher with the non-bargirls than it
is with the bargirls – true or not I have no idea, but it does suggest that one ought to party with their party hat.

Another important point to consider is that just because she never worked as a bargirl doesn’t mean that you are going to experience the intimacy of sex with love. There are plenty of non-bargirl ladies out there who simply want an itch scratched
– without any emotional involvement whatsoever. Oh, the towel routine remains the norm, but you’ll find far less starfish out there.

Be warned that many of the so-called good girls who are specifically interested in Western men may not embrace many of the characteristics that some Westerners look for in Thai women. They may not be submissive, they almost certainly don’t
lack confidence, they don’t tend to be stupid, and they tend to have a few more ideas about what is going on around them. They might even have a few opinions and they might not be shy to express them! This is where a lot of guys who have
done the bargirl thing come unstuck. Used to a passive, submissive role that so many bargirls play so well, don’t necessarily expect that with a farang-friendly good girl.

A regular Thai woman interested in meeting farangs does not have the same opportunities to meet a Western guy as the bargirls do, and when she does meet someone, she might fall for him hard. She may have dreamed about meeting her farang,
a knight in shining armour, and when she finally meets him, she becomes clingy, ultra clingy. She might profess her love for him very quickly, and may even be ready to move in with him almost right away. I cannot re-iterate enough that you should
never, ever move a Thai lady in too quickly (as I lectured about a couple of weeks back).

Also on the downside, the average good Thai girl often leads a fairly boring, sometimes even tough life. They may work long hours – and are often compelled to stay and work late in what is so often a power trip by their boss. Add to this
the fact that they often spend an hour (and possibly a lot longer) travelling to and from work each day, and you will see that their life may not be so great. They may work hard, travel great distances in uncomfortable conditions and make enough
only to get by in a shitty room in a dodgy neighbourhood. So when they meet a farang who lives in a nice, centrally-located apartment, regularly eats out at nice spots, who does largely what he wants, when he wants then they can fall for him very,
very fast.

And there are still more downers. While she may be adept at washing the dishes, and washing her clothes by hand, even something as simple as using a washing machine can be a real eye-opener. Don't be surprised if it goes all wrong. Expect her to
put in way too much washing powder and watch the thing have an epileptic fit as it struggles to expel huge balls of washing powder foam. And don’t let her anywhere near that flash Italian Espresso machine because goodness only knows what
will come out of it. Many of these girls, especially if they come form the provinces, are just not that familiar with modern appliances and the like, and they really are a bit like a fish out of water in a farang environment. The bargirls often
get a hard time for their lack of sophistication but we have to remember that many of the so called good girls come from the same background as the bargirls – and in many ways really are not that much different! So they got a few more years education…that
doesn’t always count for a lot in the real world.

I guess the points that I am trying to make are twofold here. First of all, nice Thai women are very easy to meet, generally open-minded to Westerners and they can make really great girlfriends and / or wives. If you prefer not to go down
the bargirl path, you really can meet some nice Thai ladies (though as said earlier, it really does help for you to be living in the country). But don’t expect them to be the Thai equivalent of a Western woman.

A good Thai girl is much more similar to a Thai bargirl, than a Western woman. They’re both Thai – and that is more relevant than anything else.

Where WAS THIS PICTURE taken?

Last week's picture was taken of China Resources Tower at All Seasons Place. The first person to tell me where the picture is wins a 500 baht credit at Tony's Bar in Soi Cowboy. The second person to get the prize right gets a 500 baht credit at Oh My Cod, the British Cafe in the Khao Sarn Road area. The third and forth prizes are a 500 baht credit at Sin in Sukhumvit Soi 4. Please remember that we do have a prize provider in Pattaya, my favourite bar in Pattaya, Catz. However, there seem to be few people in Pattaya sending in answers. If no-one from Pattaya gets it this week it may be time to pull that prize. The prizes are only available to people in Thailand now – either residents or tourists, and must be redeemed within 2 weeks. You MUST say that you are in Bangkok and able to claim the prize or I will consider you ineligible. If you have a preference as to which prize you would prefer, do not be shy to let me know! Also, if you are in Pattaya, please let me know so you can be eligible for that prize!

FROM STICKMAN'S EMAIL INBOX

A reactionary zealot!

When the taxi morphed into a minivan.

Offended at someone calling a spade a spade.

Wearing a yellow shirt shows respect.

Yet more thumbs up for BNH.

Does the positive stuff excite us?

Just recently a CCT camera has appeared in Nana, mounted just beyond Big Dogs Bar. It would appear to be pointing down on the area in front of Pharaoh's and it appears that it is not the type that can swivel, or be moved remotely. Who put it there? Who is controlling it? And most importantly, who is looking at the images from it? Perhaps it is simply a bar boss using it as a means to check that his girls are turning up for work on time? Or perhaps it is something more sinister?

I have never understood why beer prices in Pattaya are generally much cheaper than in Bangkok. You can get draft beer in many fine bars for 50 – 70 odd baht, all night long. And of course earlier in the evening you can get draft at ridiculous prices.
But when it comes to the top shelf stuff, you're looking at a lot more dish in Pattaya than in Bangkok. Many, many gogo bars now charge 140 – 150 baht for spirits – and even then in some of these bars you are not always getting what you order
– and even if you do, it is little more than a splash. Thankfully, not all bars are like that, but many are.

From Boesche 2, oops, I mean Silver Star A Go Go (the Walking Street one not soi 8), comes word of expensive drinks AND dodgy bills. This joint is most definitely in the expensive range having the cheek to charge 150 baht for a Kahlua & milk – which
as an example can be had at Catz for a mere 95 baht. But add to that that they are fiddling the bills and you have to wonder why on earth anyone would choose to drink there.

The Office Bar seems to be doing a good trade early in the evening and seems to have cemented its position as an after work venue. Going along later at night it much quieter. Most bars in Soi 33 are closing between 1:00 and 1:30 AM, which is a little
earlier than other bar areas which are around 2:00 AM for the time being.

Ever wondered just how old Soi 33 is? I would have thought that it might be something like 12 – 15 years since the bars there sprung up, guessing that that lane sprung up in the early '90s when the economy in Thailand was positively booming. But
it must be older than that, for Renoir is advertising their 20th anniversary party which will be held over 5 nights, from the 10th to the 14th of October. Wow, that means that some of the bars in Soi 33 have been running for at least 20 years!

I heard a rumour the other day that a certain gogo owner had been attacked. I have no idea if it's true or not but it sounded nasty – ice picks were mentioned! Yikes! This simply re-iterates the message to bar owners and bar managers of the dangers
of upsetting Thais. Despite the fact that you, as a foreigner, may have invested a considerable amount of money that created a business and employs many people, don't expect your position as "boss" to allow you to do (or even say)
what you like… If the locals feel aggrieved, there is no limit to what they might do.

For everyone who has emailed me asking where Beer Lao can be bought retail, I can confirm that it is available in bulk at Tony's Bar in Soi Cowboy @ 900 baht per carton of 24. If however going to Tony's Bar in Cowboy doesn't appeal, you
can also get it from Rooftop Garden Bar, Sukhumvit Soi 5 above Foodland, where free parking is available right next to the bar.

Punters can also get Beer Lao from the Swan Bar (Number 1, the big one with the most pool tables). They have to buy at least one case and it's just 700 baht per case.

Absolute Bar in Soi 7/1 are celebrating Oktoberfest with Paulaner available by the pint at 175 baht.

The visa issue that we've looked at over the past few weeks looks as though it is never going to be fully understood, and there will never be any strict bottom line, nor consistent enforcement. As mad as it sounds, we will never know quite how the
policy will be enforced. Senior Immigration officers have come out and said that there is no policy or ruling in place which prevents people from coming and going perpetually on tourist visas that are issued at Thai embassies or consulates outside
the Kingdom. The problem is, as has so often been said before, that within the government – and even individual government departments – the left hand does not always know what the right hand is doing. While this is being said in Bangkok, the
same thing may not be happening at other locations. This week a reader reported that he went to the Thai embassy in a neighbouring country where he applied for a tourist visa. It was issued, but the embassy also put a stamp in his passport saying
that he was a perpetual visa runner and that he may not be issued another tourist visa in the future! This simply re-enforces the message that there IS a chance that one may be turned back at the border, and that every effort should be made so
that people are not at the whim of the officer processing tourist visa applications, or the Immigration guy at the border.

And word coming out of at least one of the local visa run firms which claims to have excellent immigration contacts is that the whole idea of visa runs is going to be stamped out. This is very much second hand and I cannot confirm whether it will happen
or not, but for sure, what is being said does not bode well.

Apparently there have been some major problems with a lady who runs a laundry service in Sukhumvit Soi 4, opposite Omni Tower Serviced Apartment block. It is in the Swan Maggae and Spa building. The problems started with missing items of clothing and
high charges, but have escalated into things even more dramatic. It sounds like walking the gauntlet past Nana Plaza is not the only issue guys living in Soi 4 have to be aware of.

A few weeks back in the column I lamented that the Topless Pool Bar in Patpong was not topless at all. Since the mid – late 1980's there has been a Topless beer bar, but it was an adjunct of the Topless Exotic Bar (which went through several minor
name changes, but keeping "Topless" in the name). And although that beer bar was never 'semi-nude', the Topless Exotic Bar was, and for that matter, a good deal of the time, entirely nude. But in July 2000, the Topless Exotic
closed, becoming the new Topless Pool Bar / Sports Bar (also never literally 'topless'), and the old Topless (still next door) became the Kaeng Topless Beer Bar.

The ultimate Thai dating site with ladies from all over Thailand!

I feel a need to comment a little on the yellow T-shirts that many people are wearing in Thailand at present, and the question that was asked to the Mrs. about it in last week's column. I believe that no-one should be forced to wear the shirt – as
some workplaces are effectively doing to some farang staff, but if people want to wear it, then so be it. There is no doubt that Thai people really do like it when they see farang wearing the yellow shirt and supporting the monarchy. And let's
face it, Thailand is a country where what you say is often the most important thing – and by wearing a yellow shirt you are effectively saying something that the Thais really like. It has to be said though that there is a not insignificant number
of Westerners resident who scoff at others wearing the yellow shirt…so be it.

A lot of people have been asking about the new airport, at least from a practical point of view. I have not passed through it myself yet – and don't plan to for some time – so can only provide info that is very much second-hand. First of all, a number
of taxi drivers are quoting 500 baht to get there from the city, many simply refusing to turn on the meter. Apparently they are complaining that it is hard to get a fare back, and that they may have to drive quite some way from the airport to
get a fare. True or not, I have no idea. From the Silom / Sathorn area, it is a journey of approximately 30 km, a bit further than to Don Muang, so the taxi fare, assuming the meter is used, will cost a little bit more. The tollway fares will
be 65 baht, instead of 60 baht, assuming you take the Chonburi Motorway route. My feeling is that the new airport will be easier to get to, despite its greater distance, as in addition to the Chonburi Motorway route, there are at least three other
major roads that lead to it. As far as transport from the airport to the city goes, there are buses and taxis as before, and no doubt overpriced limousines too. The new skytrain link is not due to open until the end of next year.
That will be real nice when it finally gets going. Reports coming in from guys who have used the new airport indicate that flying out are ok, but flying in can be a bit disorientating, and delays are to be expected. One reader reports that it
cost 1,050 baht to get to Pattaya using a taxi from the taxi rank, and it took just 1.5 hours, point to point. That will appeal to a lot of guys, at least half an hour shaved over the time to Pattaya.

The question of where to send one's Thai girlfriend to study English is a tough one. I often recommend AUA, although they insist on all students having at least a Mattayom 3 (grade 9) education. One language school which has been advertising heavily
in recent times is Wall Street, but I am sorry to say that I personally have not been impressed. A friend studies there and some of what she has told me is a little disconcerting. They are marketing themselves as a premier language instruction
provider, yet some of their Western teachers seem to have a minimal knowledge of the language. Further, their methodology and whole way they teach the language is to me, admittedly something of a purist, questionable. If you wish to send your
darling for high-end English language instruction, I would re-iterate my long standing recommendation that the British Council is the best place. One does have to factor in however that the British Council is dominated by the hi-so types – and
a girl from the jungle may not fit in there. If Jungle Girl is your girlfriend, try a branch of ECC or Siam Computer And Language – both of which are reasonable for general English instruction.

For many guys it is hard to understand why much of Thai society is confused at the average Westerner's taste in Thai women. More often than not, Western guys are seen walking hand in hand with smaller framed, darker Thai women. These women are not
viewed as being attractive by the average Thai and are perhaps considered the least desirable of Thailand's lovely maidens. But for the average Western guy, this is really hard to get into our heads. Playing squash with a couple of mates
recently, we had to vacate the court for a Thai / farang couple, that is a Thai guy, with a Western woman. The Thai guy had a shit-eating grin – he had scored himself a white bird. No doubt all of his mates would have been impressed too, but for
the average Westerner, this woman, was, with all due respect, not exactly a looker. She was, shall we say, a well rounded lady. Or perhaps we could call her a whole lot of loving. Whatever, Thai guy seemed very happy with her. It made me think
that what I saw in that couple is how the Thais often view us, especially if we have a little Isaan girl in tow.

Here is the latest from the international press about Thailand's coup.

Here's the latest on Western perverts being arrested in Cambodia.

Ask the Sticks

Mrs. Stick is here to answer questions surrounding anything that confuses you in Thailand, particularly issues of the heart. Please note that for general bargirl related questions, Mr. Stick might answer them. Please do try and limit the length of questions to Mrs. Stick to about 100 words. We get many questions that are entire stories of several hundred words which
I'm afraid are just too long to run here.

Question 1: I recently read the Stickman Weekly for 11/09/2005 – Mail Order Brides. I went through their site and it sounds like a good service. In the past I considered Russian 'mail-order bride' services & spent about 1 year reading much about it. I became quite knowledgeable about things but decided NOT to proceed. Why? I ordered an E-Book (written by a woman who runs a large US / Russian dating agency – who was a 'mail-order bride' herself) explaining that ALL Russian women want children. In the E-book I think she said that of the 1,000 – 2,000 couples she's helped to get together, only 3 didn't want children and the only reason was because they had problems with their reproductive system. Anyhow, as I don't want children myself, this was a deal-breaker & never did follow through. What about Thai women? Do they "all" want children? Or is there a good percentage who do not? I really would like to know since I would like a companion sometime in the future – but children I have never wanted.

Mrs. Stick says: When I was younger I used to dream about what my husband would look like, how our wedding day would be, what my wedding dress would look like and yes, and what our children would look like. Women dream about getting married. Most Thai women want to get married and yes, most want children. I think this is natural for women all over the world to want children.

Question 2: I have been living with my Thai girlfriend for 13 months. We live in Phatum Thani. She is 32 and I am 57. I met her at Angels in Nana Hotel. I live in her home (paid for) and she drives me around in her car (paid for). She has a son (5) with a Japanese man she was with (he was married and wife was in Japan). She tells me he died of a brain aneurism and that he paid for the house and car. I have been coming to Thailand for 15 years and know the game. My question is…in your recent post from the farang as to Thai "emotions", in all the time we have been together she does not touch me, hug me or kiss me except for an occasional smiling open-handed pat on my stomach or shoulder. I observe other Thai women showing affection to their farang boyfriends. She hugs her son and dog, although I do not observe anyone in my girl's family show affection to the opposite sex, even at home! If you tell me to get out of this relationship, please advise the best way to do that. I am happy with her, except I am missing the affection stuff.

Mrs. Stick says: For Thai women, we do not usually show affection, or emotion, in public. Affection should be shown in private. Of course we hug children in public but that is different from the relationship we have with a boyfriend or husband. All emotion and affection with our partner is reserved for a private place. In the privacy of your own home, or bedroom, I hope you and your wife can share intimate moments. If she is not showing you any intimacy at all, then you need to talk to her and find out how she feels.

Question 3: My Thai girlfriend has been talking a lot about getting married lately, but the dowry is extremely high – 2 million baht. She knows I'm a poorly paid English teacher and it would take a while for me to save that amount, yet she still asks me to pay close to 20,000 each month in gifts etc to her parents and her. At this rate I will never save up that amount. Do you think she is using me or do you think she is serious about marriage? PS I have never slept with her as she has told me that she wants to keep everything traditional. In fact, we never go anywhere alone together.

Mrs. Stick says: I can't understand this. If this woman is hi-so, she should know that an English teacher cannot look after her the way she wants to be looked after. 20,000 a month and a 2 million baht dowry, this is a lot of money. Actually, 2 million baht dowry is more than many really wealth people pay. I have seen dowries that large on TV, but never heard anyone I know paying anything close to that. I'm not sure about this. Either she is very hi-so and it will be hard for you to look after her, or she is more interested in your money, than you.

Mr. Stick says: I think this is a wind up. Either that or this woman is seriously bad news. For the average English teacher working in Thailand, it would take more than 10 years to save up that sort of money – and even then it might not be achievable. And if she expects 20,000 baht a month from you as well? Forget it!

It seems that the site has brought about some imitators. Chatting with the manager of one large, popular gogo bar, he was shocked to finally meet Stickman, and see that I was not the tall, lanky guy who had introduced himself as Stickman to him a few
times in the past. And apparently he is not the only one. There would appear to be a few folks who when in a bar and are feeling aggrieved, start complaining about things and threaten to write things on their site, the Stickman site, about the
bar if the management doesn't fix up the problem – and compensate them with drinks. I would NEVER ever say that sort of nonsense. For the impersonators out there, a lot of bar owners do know me personally. See what happens if you try and
scam them…

Your Bangkok commentator,

Stick