Stickman Readers' Submissions March 5th, 2015

What REALLY Happens To Bargirls When They Leave The Industry

This one may be a bit lengthy so please bear with me. Haven't written a sub in quite a while but when something gets my back up I can't help myself. First I would like to address some of anon's comments from his sub the other day. I will then share some of my personal experiences regarding close friends who are in well established relationships with bargirls. Finally I will talk about something that has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum by better and more eloquent minds than mine but seems the be the thing that people fuck up the most. That is, of course, a few simple rules if you are set on shacking up with a bargirl.

So lets start with anon. Most of you that have read any of my previous ramblings will know I am a rather staunch defender of the bargirl. I think given the right girl and circumstances, treated with respect and placed in a good environment, a number of bargirls are no better or worse than the majority of the female population. Sure there are liars and cheats and alcoholics and drug users, however bargirls don't have a monopoly on that. Jess I spent enough nights out in Sydney bars and clubs to know that to be true. There are also some beautiful nurturing, caring, respectful family oriented girls that can and have made fantastic wives. Personally I think it is remarkable that even a small percentage of girls could come out of that environment/ industry with their head screwed on right. I believe it to be a testament to the strength of the girls themselves.

He Clinic Bangkok

Now clearly I don't know anon and I don't want to seem like I am having a go at him. In fact, I feel sorry for him. Most of us know people for whom a relationship has gone bad and it can be a terrible thing for both parties, but again it's nothing bargirls have a monopoly on. I take umbrage whenever I see broad sweeping generalisations and I cringe whenever I see a sentence begin with… All bargirls are… All Bullshit. You might as well start it with all Aussies are or all Kiwis are or all Muslims are. Total fallacy, categorically wrong and often stinks of racism, bigotry or sour grapes.

Putting generalisations briefly to the side, here are a couple of other things I picked up in anon's sub. "Bargirls are generally smarter than the average farang". Mate, if you want to put your hand up to say that a girl that has had maybe 4 years of schooling in what is internationally recognised as a woefully inadequate education system is smarter than yourself, go right ahead. The truth is a lot of blokes leave their brains at Swampy or Don Meuang back in the day, start thinking with their little head and then start flashing a bit of cash around to try and impress the hooker they just met 5 seconds ago. She's not smarter than you, you're just drunk, not thinking properly or haven't been around much, possibly all 3.

"They are all rorting the system". Half truth mixed with prejudice. Truth is the Aussie welfare system is a soft touch always has been and is open to abuse. I'm sure Stick won't mind me saying that there were quite a few of our brothers and sisters from across the ditch that did quite well out of the Aussie welfare system during the 70's and 80's. People have been having a crack at our welfare system forever nothing to do with bargirls at all. Maybe people are telling each other how to rort it. Do I like it? No. Can I do anything about it? No. The problem there is with the system not the bargirl, but if you can get away with the rort good luck to you.

CBD bangkok

"They are all damaged goods". Controversial this one but I believe if you are honest with yourself quite a lot of you may agree with what I am about to say. As for the girls, I have seen some literally take to it like a duck to water, they love the life and use it to their advantage. I have seen many get chewed up and spat out the other side, unfortunately much worse for wear. I have also seen quite a few go in and come out relatively unscathed. The point I think however is that those who spend and those who dream about spending their lives and holidays mostly in bars and strip joints associating and frequenting with prostitutes are pretty damaged goods themselves. Now the older boys who introduced me and my clan of mates to Pattaya back in the 90's were all of the same ilk. They weren't losers, they weren't struggling to get girls at home, they weren't social misfits. They were nomads, they did love a beer and a knuckle if necessary. They would consume with gusto any recreational substances that were available / on offer. They would certainly be interested in any merchandise that may have recently fallen off the back of a truck or could be found in a suitcase in the back of a pub. In short they were different from your average squarehead in the general population. In Aussie vernacular they were knock-abouts. I couldn't speak as to whether they were damaged goods or not, suffice to say their moral compass never faced true North. Which is why I would say look at the girl then yourself, where you met her and the lifestyle you both lead and it's easy to see why it's not so easy to make it work.

"They are all lazy and only want to take the easy road". This is probably the most trotted out nonsense of all and the one I take the most offense at. Short of some entrepreneurs and high flying execs, most people want the highest return for the least effort. At any job if there is a choice of doing more work for less money or less work for more money, guess which one the majority of people will choose? That takes away from my point though. Which many I know don't agree with, which is, I don't think these girls have an easy job at all. May be easier than slogging it out in a rice paddy or at Tesco Lotus for 300 baht a day but these girls work long hours surrounded by drugs and alcohol. Who more often than not have abusive boyfriends waiting to take most of their cash, which they earn by sleeping with people from countries who they think have disgraceful hygiene, zero style, are probably drunk, possibly on drugs, not infrequently violently and physically abusive and in a lot of cases are decades older and 2 to 3 times their size. Yeah, grouse, sounds like a walk in the park.

I am friends with and have met a lot of people over the years married and in long term relationships with bargirls. I have spoken about this in another sub "Why I think we all tend to end up with one girl….eventually. Guys from a multitude of countries who have taken their girls all over the world, some still living in Thailand and for the most part the majority are doing well. Some have crashed and burned but most followed some simple rules which I will talk about later. To get back on topic, what I will tell you about is 6 of my closest friends all of whom happen to live in Australia and are in relationships with bargirls. Conveniently for me, these 6 guys fall into 3 categories. 2 of the guys have been with their girls more than 15 years. 2 have been with their girls between 5 and 10 years and the last 2 have been with their girls for less than 5 years. 2 are married, 4 are not. Funnily enough, the 2 that have been together the longest aren't married.

Mostly, I can tell you this. They aren't nasty, they aren't bitches, they aren't alcoholic, they aren't drug users. They definitely are not damaged goods. All these girls are rock solid, have assimilated well and now wouldn't want to live anywhere else bar Australia. In fact they nearly have to be dragged back to Thailand on holiday or to see their families. Every single one of them works and works hard. As you probably know getting a job in Australia for someone with a rudimentary education means one thing, menial labour. They all work long hours in ordinary jobs that most people don't want to do. They don't complain and they don't expect to be kept by their partners. They want to work and in 2 of the cases they guys in question are very well off. They have both told their girls on many occasions there is no reason for them to work. They choose to work and will continue to do so. I will say though any money they earn is definitely only "theirs" for the most part. A couple of them drink and don't mind slapping the cardies but any Aussie that would question someone having a tipple and the odd flutter is to be avoided at all costs. The other 4 are your traditional Thai girls – they don't drink, don't smoke, don't gamble and generally wouldn't do anything that could put them in the bad books with Buddha. I could harp on and on here but you see my point they aren't all the same not even close.

wonderland clinic

My mates all basically did the right thing in choosing the right girl and following a few simple steps that I believe can greatly improve your chances in making this thing work if that is what you want. I would say think about it though, long term relationships are an ongoing exercise in compromise and sacrifice. Just how much are you willing to give up? In this "me" generation of instant gratification I honestly don't think most people have the fortitude, commitment or ability to make long term relationships work, which is why so many fail.

Here are a few rules I have seen followed that seem to give you the best chance in securing longevity with a bargirl:

Pick the right girl. Sounds easy enough, right? Wrong. From what I have experienced it could take years for you to make this decision and it should. I reckon a vast percentage of those that fail have done a few trips to Thailand grab a few girls, do their balls over one then try and get her out of the bar and take her home. Spend as much time with this girl as you can at her bar, out of her bar, doing normal stuff. If you don't live in Thailand you are then going to have to accept the fact she is fucking other people and probably looking for better options while you aren't there. Whether you sponsor her or not, whether she tells you "I not work bar" or not, this is probably the harshest reality you will have to deal with. She gets lied to all the time. She won't commit until you commit and LINE messages and a few thousand baht here and there won't get you over the line. Once you get past that point I would suggest getting her and yourself as far away from the bar scene as possible, definitely not necessary but highly recommended. I would also recommend living with her in Thailand long before you make the jump to bringing her back to Farangistan.

Keep the age gap minimal. Don't worry, I am the same as you nothing quite like being in the company of a young bird and wallowing in the exuberance of youth. However for you 50, 60, 70 year old guys keep that shit in the hotel or the short time room. Despite the fact you run the risk of looking ridiculous, she doesn't want to marry you, she is just praying to Buddha and counting the seconds till you die. From what I have seen, around 15 years or less seems to be the magic number. Again this isn't concrete but I think it's about right. So if you're 60 and wouldn't even consider marrying a 45 year old maybe 40 at the max, do yourself a favour and just keep playing the game.

Don't lie about your income. Thais generally think we are all rich anyway so when they see you do your 2 week millionaire thing throwing baht around like it doesn't matter, imagine their surprise when you drag them back to Farangistan and you're flat out paying your mortgage and living on your weekly budget. Obviously being a little facetious there but the ones I have seen work best are where the girls know straight up where they are going to be cash wise. If you can only afford to give her 15000 a month (which I am pretty sure wouldn't secure you a bargirl wife these days anyway) then that's what it is, no more, no less. You will still have to factor in a bit extra for special occasions but I wouldn't let her know that.

Do NOT under any circumstances marry a great arse, nice tits, trophy. Look we all love the gogo superstars but these girls are big earners, fancy themselves, are high maintenance and generally trouble. Don't marry her because she has the best arse, nicest tits or sucks the best cock you have ever had. You need to have, I believe, some serious connection outside her looks or sexual prowess. If that's the only reason you want to get hitched, again it's better you leave that shit to the hotel or short time room. If she has a great arse and you get on like a house on fire all the better and kudos to you. We have all got fond memories of days gone by and the trophies we've won, but only a wanker carries his trophies round with him plus that shit starts getting heavy and looking really tacky after a while. A caveat here, if you have more money than Jamie Packer and a hard heart to go with it you could effectively keep as many gogo superstars on a short leash as you can afford and just give them a golden handshake when it is time to trade up. Sounds like hard work and a costly exercise but there you go. If you had Jamie's money though I don't think bargirls would be on the menu.

At least have a minimum grasp on each others native language. Granted I know a lot of guys who have never made the effort to learn Thai. Couldn't even order a beer in fact, but the relationships that work best people can… and wait for this.. communicate with each other. Not talking about fluency but the more Thai you learn the more you learn about Thais which is important if you want to marry one. She also needs to understand as much of your mother tongue as is practicable.

Don't confuse sex with love. Thais are masters of this but they didn't get brought up on Disney and fairy tales. It's a bodily function. Just like taking a piss. Doesn't mean anything. Sure it can get intimate but it is no indication of anything. Yet time and time again so many guys do their balls over a good empty. That's why I think many hardcore mongers, myself included, start getting a little bit jaded with it all. It's also why I think those that keep playing the game shorten up their stable to a few girls they have something in common with outside of sex. Could be she makes you laugh or she's just fun to be around. Once your notches get into the hundreds and even thousands, meaningless sex becomes, well, meaningless. You honestly end up just going through the motions. Just all becomes a blur, really. Now you can add to the fact that most of that heart and soul and most of the fun has been sucked out of the joint and you can begin to understand why bar areas are starting to look like ghost towns.

So there you have it. I would have to be probably the last bloke you would want to go to for relationship advice but as I said for the most part the majority of the people I know in relations with bargirls are doing OK. I may have a very different point of reference to you though, my glory days were late 90's up till around 2010. The joke was you had to pay them to get rid of them and that was true. The girls would leave stuff in your room or find silly excuses to come back looking for something. They always wanted to know when you were coming back to their bar to see them again. It got so bad with some that you would have to change hotels a couple of times a trip to stop girls trying to shadow you. They really did want to be with you that bad. Also unless you were partial to a bottle over the head you would never take 2 girls from the same bar. There were far and away many more potential "keepers" back then and quite a few got scooped up. In these times though when short time is it and the girls are so much more mercenary (and unattractive), I honestly can't comprehend why anyone would even consider getting into a relationship with a bargirl. Honestly, the old hands know the game and play it best. They know the rules. They know not to get involved and they keep everything as a strictly cash transaction no mess, no fuss.

Don't know how this is going to sound but I think the guys that struggle the most with bargirls haven't been on the scene very long. Probably haven't had a lot of interaction or been too lucky with girls back home. I also think some older guys who have never really been let "off the chain" so to speak get way too enamoured with it all and get sucked into the bright lights and tight (well used to be lol) bodies and start doing shit they would never dream of at home which ends up being a recipe for disaster. My advice if you were asking for it, would to very carefully consider what the fuck you are thinking. Then go away for a year or so and come back and ask me again. If you still wanted to marry her that's the time you can really start seeing if she is ticking the boxes you need ticked not just for you, for her as well. That's the other thing often overlooked. Ask her what she wants out of it too. I think some think they are just marrying a fuck doll that they can sit in the corner, will do what it's told when it's told, you rule the roost and just hand over some readies now and then. Do that at your peril. This is a woman with her own thoughts, dreams and ambitions just like you. Treat her like a normal girl and not a bargirl and you may just be astounded by the result.

Look, there is nothing revolutionary here. It's stuff that has been said by me and others hundreds of times. To be honest, sometimes when I hear the horror stories and the truth starts coming out I just quietly think to myself how did you let this happen? I still stand by the fact the most unsuccessful relationships are where the guy has jumped in too soon. A lot of guys love to talk up the long game but I think, sorry to be harsh, the only people that get played never did their due diligence and let themselves get played, but that's just me. Cheers.

Have fun out there,


Stickman's thoughts:

I agree with much of what you say in principle but disagree with one point strongly. You talk of an acceptable age gap of up to 15 years which is something I can live with. What I strong disagree with, however, is paying the lady 15,000 baht plus equivalent for month. If she is younger, she should be encouraged to better herself, be it through education and work / starting a business. Paying her money and effectively encouraging her to play housewife is not the way to go. Get her out and about with a life of her own and she will get pride from that, be happier and ultimately that should mean a better relationship. If she is much younger and does not want to work and would rather just be a kept woman I'd question whether she is the right sort of person to settle down with.

nana plaza