Monopoly On Sorrow
This is an old debate but when I read the last Professor’s submission I felt a bit puzzled with his conclusions. I agree that a relationship between a westerner and a Thai lady is reasonably difficult due to the cultural differences, but not impossible. What I don’t agree with is the silly argument that only the westerner (indexed to his age too!) should make an effort to adapt to Thai culture and not the other way around.
My thoughts are that if you live in Thailand you sure need to adapt to the Thai culture and the Thai “way of doing things” – let’s call it the “Thai way”. It’s in your hands…don’t let her family take control over you. That nonsense of wheat people, rice people is like the nonsense of the gogo bars. For his idea I’m wheat people but in fact I always will choose the orange pencil. Not because I feel like the rice people do everything in a community but because in fact I prefer the orange color. Due to the Professor’s idea, being a westerner I would be an individualist bastard with no heart. In fact I am an individualist guy but I don’t feel like a bastard at all and I would choose the orange pencil anyway due to other factors that really doesn’t matter. That makes me the exception that will corroborate with that silly theory.
I really think the fact of the huge number of failed relationships between westerners and Thai ladies is no more than an urban myth without available data to support it. It’s only bar talk. In fact I agree with the Professor when he states that we have more reports of failed relationships than successful relationships, so it’s easy to make a conclusion failure is the norm. In Stickman’s site we have more reports of failed relationships and we tend to make the assumption that the silly number of 80% of all relationships fails. For me the principal cause for failure is the age gap and the background of the betrothed. When I see an old fart with an old hooker I think they are perfect with each other and no harm done. Otherwise when I see an old fart with a young lady I feel a sense of disgust because I feel the old fart will corrupt the young lady’s mind. It’s like a father-daughter relationship with sex. It feels like an incestuous relationship to me. Thinking this as absolutely normal makes me wonder if the guy has any psychological problem. I know fresh meat will always be more pleasant, but everything has limits due to morality.
I refuse to pay sin sot
I’m all in on that. Looks like I need to bribe her parents to make them let me marry her daughter or I’m buying her love to me. Once I had an experience dating online with a Thai lady. She lives in Isaan in a well-known city and works in a hospital as a nurse so she has a degree education. We were doing well until without me asking anything or ever talking about the subject she made a proposition to me. If I want to marry her I would need to pay the “sin sot” to her parents and without that no marriage at all, even though we had never met each other. After I questioned her about her motives, she gave the old rubbish thing, “my parents gave me birth and I need to honor them with money when I marry to someone”. That is absolutely silly, looks like only in Thailand parents give birth to children and in the west we don’t honor or be grateful to our parents. She told me she already had a German guy who wanted to marry her and he refused to pay “sin sot” either, so no marriage. After a few more questions I asked her a simple question, “Do you love me?” I made this simple question to see if she has any real feeling for me, since we only talked via MSN. Her answer was a deep silence until today, almost 4 years since. As you can see, it is all about business and you can enter a huge turmoil of emotions because you will feel guilty or at fault with her parents. Apparently she intends to sacrifice for the sake of her parents. That’s another big nonsense.
I’m 100% against the “sin sot” issue. I think it’s a silly tradition and, most of the time, a way to milk the westerner. I know some cases where the guy paid the “sin sot” only to appear in pictures and it will be returned to his pocket after the ceremony finishes. That I can understand and that can be kind of a cultural and traditional thing from the ancient times. In the same time I talked to another lady about “sin sot”. That time I only wanted to understand the deal but it was not my intention to marry her. She started making a big list of demands: house, land, a brand new car, money and lots of gold, as I remember. If I counted correct it would be a huge sum of money. What a gold digger, in my modest opinion.
If I also followed the tradition from my country with her family, in this case the bride’s family needs to pay for the wedding. Would they consider following my country’s tradition as well? I surely think not. So, my question is this, “Why should I follow their traditions?” We are talking about being reasonable and honest. When 2 cultures have met it's better to find a reasonable shortcut which serves both parties. Can’t be only one party to gain supremacy.
I won’t finance her kids from a Thai man
This is a sensitive issue. I feel that if they live with you, you should take care and love them as they were your kids. It’s something like being human and offers a nice comfort level. Same if her parents live with you. Being participative if you live as a family, eating and living together 24 hours a day gives you the necessary bounds to treat them as your family. In the other way if they are living far from you for some kind of reason, in my opinion she should work and make the best she can to support them. In that case I can help, but not 100%. This issue is really a bit sensitive and I don’t want to hurt some feelings.
I won’t give money to her parents
Like the last item I think if you live together with them you should take care of them as if they were your parents. You can control where they spend money. I don’t want my money to be spent on alcohol or gambling. If you don’t live with them, well… I have my parents also and they are not rich and I also need to take care of them. Living the Thai way is living a life to make money to eat today. Tomorrow is another day. That’s not the way we think in the west. We are more organized and more logical. If you feel something is not right run the hell out of there. That’s not your place. Respect their culture but demand respect for your culture too. Do you want to be a walking ATM or a milky cow for the rest of your life? I surely do not, thank you!
She has to love me and love me alone
In Thai culture they love the family more than they will love you. They love the King and Buddhist monks than you. You are last in that scale. Are you prepared for that?
The most important thing is that she tell the truth at all times
Is there any other moral value here? I really don’t understand this point. This should be standard in all relationships all over the world. Lying is not acceptable at all in any place on earth. Why should the Thais be able to lie and expect us to understand their point? What makes me feel more disgusted is someone who lived in the western supporting this as part of their culture. Lying should always be reprehensible. Lying could be pathological and someone wants me to believe this is a normal behaviour? Come on…give me a break! A relationship should be built on mutual respect.
Giving a big share of responsibility to the western man if the relationship fails is a bit harsh and cruel. If the man lives in Thailand he sure needs to adapt to the Thai culture and speak Thai just as the Thai lady needs to adapt in his country too if she lives there. I know some cases of some Thai ladies who have come to my country and they needed 2 – 3 years at least to adapt to my country lifestyle, some of them very basic. Are you kidding me? 1 – 2 months is ok. It could be 6 months. More than that and you don’t belong here. Go back to Thailand. Of course we can have other issues like the guy’s background. We don’t see the crème de la crème going to Thailand to get married, right? That is not caused by the culture, it's caused by human nature.
Sleeping 10 – 12 hours a day on a floor mattress is not acceptable. Don’t want to learn the native language. Don’t want to work many hours because they will feel tired and they can’t talk with family back in Thailand. Always want to eat Thai food. Don’t have breakfast or eating noodles every 2 hours. In my country we will call them disorganized lazy bitches. This was some of the reasons I heard. It’s simply ridiculous. They think the “Thai way” is the way even when they go overseas. If I go to Thailand with the purpose of living there I will make an effort to follow their life rhythm, eat their food and learn Thai and respect their culture, even if I fail I can say with pride that I tried. I gave it my best and I can move forward with a sense of mission completed.
Thinking that in 2 weeks you can fully know the person in question is so hilarious like his sentence “No man should be in a relationship with a woman who comes home every night with another man’s sperm in her mouth”. I think your pupils, your fellow female colleagues and your superiors would be so proud if they can see the chauvinist you really are. This should not be qualified the quote of the year but yet the embarrassment of the year. You’ve started good, looks like you are following a path of goodwill and serenity like a good Samaritan and then, here comes the bomb. Everything goes down the drain. You are not reliable anymore. Those 2 week test are being rejected by Thai ladies nowadays. That old school thing was already left behind. Thai ladies in general have more info about the “good farang guys” across the internet and are not interested in being your pet partner for 2 weeks. Of course you can have some naïve girls or gold diggers ready for that, but not like before. Not so easy anymore. You can live a whole life with someone and not really know her, imagine knowing her for 2 weeks. Making your relationship depending on the way she treats monks looks very odd to me. She might not be religious. In modern times it may occur, right? Maybe you want a nun as a future spouse, who knows…
I think the major relationships failures will be the ones where there are some kind of abuse over the other. It could be physically or psychologically or even monetary. When the other party realizes what is going on it sure will have confrontations and the relationship tends to worsen day after day until the inevitable end occurs. Say the blame is only of the westerner being simplistic. Thai ladies have to blame themselves too. They can’t lose their Thai mindset even if they live in the west. Both parties need to adapt to each other. Most of them want to live in the west the way they live in Thailand and thinking everybody is filthy rich. If you have a partner from the rural area of Thailand they will believe you will support her and her family and provide with everything. Sometimes I get the idea they think money grows on trees and they don’t need to work. Their perception of life is so different from developed countries. In fact they are vain and childish and the younger, the worse.
Don’t let the sorrow command your life. Don’t let someone tell you sad stories to take advantage of your goodwill. Be honest with your beliefs and follow the path you designed for your life. Always trust your first impressions – they will be genuine and are not contaminated with your thoughts following. More important: read the red flags and follow your heart. Some will seek love and understand others will seek sex and adventures. Some are just damn fools believing a hooker’s love is truly genuine.
The points you make are good and I think the vast majority of men in the West would agree with them. However, when Thailand comes in to the mix people's ideas seem to change…and I am not sure why that is.