A Fool And His Money Are Some Party
I hope I never become as jaded and know-it-all as Professor in "Your name is XXX".
"You take 4 showers a day", he says. Really, Professor, we do? How could you possibly know that? You speak from your own perspective. Can I just say that again, Professor – You speak from your own perspective.
Stick sometimes comments that he doesn't like the bar scene, but I've never seen him judge and he always seems to offer a balanced view. That's probably a lot to do with the success of this site. Professor's views came with the suggestion that he was somehow better than the people he described in it.
Professor, when reading your submission I just substituted the "your name is", with – "my name is Professor". That was much more honest. Reading your submission, I wonder if anyone else thought the same as me? "Speak for yourself, pal!" Any response from Prof will probably be along the lines of "touched a nerve, did I!" Just to pre-empt that, it really didn't. I just thought it was one of the creepiest submissions for a long time. By all means, tell people how you behave. But telling people how THEY behave? Can that really work?
Long live previous submissions like "Totally I fell in love", who found himself getting into a relationship with a Thai bargirl and articulated his views. By writing this, he set himself up for a backlash and I love him for daring to be honest enough to do so. Long live all the submitters to this website who are brave enough to do that. It does take balls. For me, submissions like that are much more about the spirit of this great site than Prof's little offering.
Stickmanites, re-read "Your name is XXX" if you like. The subtext to his writing being – he has us all pegged. He has every one of us one-dimensional characters well sussed out. Don't forget it's YOU the Thai Professor is talking about. Yes, YOU. He doesn't call his piece "the bloke next to you is XXX". What do you think of his assessment of you, do you agree?
Me, I would say the Professor was lashing out because in his eyes, there are submitters here that represent everything he hates about himself. That's just basic psychology. It doesn't take a Professor to work that out.
For what it's worth, I used to be as cynical as the Professor before I realised just how ugly thinking like that can be. I really enjoy almost all the contributions to this website. Phet is my favourite writer – a great, open perspective and very readable writing style.
Relationships are a fascinating subject, and whether they are good, great, awful or even IMAGINED, they are always interesting to hear about. Comedian Chris Rock has carved out a millionaire career in stand-up and he says that relationships are the one subject that everyone loves best. Relationships travel. You can be in London, New York, or Timbuktu. We all have relationships and it's always good to see how the other half lives.
Bargirls – I've read many times on this site the following quote – "You wouldn't get together with a prostitute in your own country." But is all prostitution the same? Are there levels? Are any levels acceptable?
It depends how you look at it. Are all drugs the same? "Drugs are drugs!" But marijuana and heroin, are they anywhere near the same scale? So prostitution – all the same? Today I ask the question – Is it?
I live in London so I've been brought up with a certain attitude towards it – it's bad. If I lived in Amsterdam I may feel totally different. As you will see as you read on, my attitude over the years has thawed somewhat.
I once sat on a train journey opposite a gorgeous girl. Stunning she was. We got chatting. She was so far out of my league she was practically playing a different sport, but we got on. We had a bit of a laugh. I got up and went to the shop, and came back with a few beers. We got stuck into the beers (she was a bit of a drinker). And it turned out she worked as an escort.
For a couple of weekends a year she went to Monaco, and met up with 2 regular clients. That's it, that was her working life. I'm sorry, people – well I say people, I mean feminists – this prostitute was in control. I know that's not what all feminists want to hear. There's no chains and pimps in this story. No oppressive males lurking in the background. This girl ran her own show. "Be the hero of your own story", I was once told – good advice. Well she was the heroine of her own story. This girl spent a couple of weekends a year hooking up with wealthy clients. The rest of the year she did whatever she wanted.
It's amazing to me that society thinks less of someone like this than a girl who would say – "I spent all this year f**king my idiot boyfriend!" Gorgeous girls and stand-up comedians, they are the 2 luckiest groups of people in the world. They can travel the world, make big money and they don't even need a toolbox! Imagine that, a job where you need absolutely NOTHING – just yourself! Even David Beckham needs a football!
Are Thai freelancers really so different? They breeze around, doing their own thing. Making a hell of a lot more money than their sisters at the factory back home, the job they are qualified for. Of course, compared to an escort in the west, the volume of punters will obviously be higher, but are there a lot of instances where no-one really gets hurt?
Don't pay a barfine, that's my view. Forget the paperwork. Paperwork means industry, and industry means a hierarchy. There's scope for exploitation there. There's plenty of freelancers in the bars and clubs who answer only to themselves. "Not all of them!" I hear. No, but most. They can say no, and that is a huge difference to the bars. THEY can pick YOU up. Let them. Enjoy your night. And make sure they enjoy theirs. Make sure their smile is genuine next time they see you.
Stickman speaks Thai so it was interesting to hear his perspective talking to some girls in the bars, the ones that said they really don't like their jobs. Caveman suggested that girls admitting such a thing, well that would make them whores, and who wants to admit that?
It's seen as the most terrible thing that a bargirl wouldn't like her job. Well I don't like MY job! Do you like yours? Hands up who likes their job. There's a simple way to see – if you wouldn't do it for free, you probably don't like it much.
Hardly anyone likes their jobs! I have never seen a happy traffic warden. I've never bought popcorn at the cinema from a beaming adolescent. Even Lionel Messi, the greatest footballer in the world, has to go in the wall sometimes for a free-kick. Look at him grab his nuts – he'd probably trade that moment for a bit of connect 4.
Comedian Doug Stanhope does a brilliant piece about why women hate prostitutes. "Don't give it away for what it's WORTH! We are holding out for so much more! We can get cars, houses, everything! Don't let men work out the truth!"
A few years ago in London, I wonder if anyone else remembers this? There was a feminist movement, I forget their name, these women ran into a main London newspaper shop, W H Smiths, and taped up all the top-shelf magazines. It was front page news the next day, and TV reported it too. Their message was – "No rude magazines in our everyday shops! Stop looking at this, men!" I had to laugh when a friend casually said – "Feminists, they've been denying us sex for years, and now they wont even let us whack off!" This is what we must put up with over here, people!
Jim Jeffries says – "If you go out for a meal with a girl, when the bill arrives, if she's a good girl, she will do the "purse grab" – She's very quick to give up on that argument. Other arguments she can keep going for f**king years! But that one, she's ever so gracious"
The girl I've been seeing for about 3 years is a freelancer. We recently had our first huge argument. It was at the end of my last trip. I have got a point to this story so please do bear with me.
We went out one night and drank quite a lot. We got into a barney, it escalated, and never really came back down again. We got on a motorbike taxi and went back home, both of us simmering. Just like I've read in so many previous submissions, she went into a sulk with me, even though she was the one in the wrong. I couldn't believe that, it really made me angry – "YOUR upset with ME?" (Oh Stickmanites you've probably seen it all before.) She got into bed and turned away from me. I tried to talk to her but she just wasn't listening.
So I did the worst thing, the thing that you must never do with a Thai girl (I learned from this site) – I left her on her own. A bad, BAD move. Dangerous. I just went to the fridge, got some water and walked out, slamming the door. Thais hate being left on their own, don't they? I knew it would upset her. Worse, I turned the light out when I left. "Sleep, then."
I knew this was a bad thing to do. But I wasn't going away for long. Across the street is a 7/11. I planned to go there, buy a few bits and pieces and come back. So as I say, I wasn't going away for long – but she didn't know that.
As I queued at 7/11 I kept my eyes on the hotel door opposite, half expecting her to come storming out. But it didn't happen.
I went back inside. As I got to my door, she came barging out past me. We exchanged words. I went inside the room and to my astonishment, she actually came back.
But it wasn't for long. She had forgotten something – her handbag. She swept it up and began to storm past me again. Further words were exchanged. And then she started crying.
Now I have read submissions where we are warned about the crocodile tears. I think even Stick himself has warned us not to give in to them. They can be all be way to soften us up, and to beware. I would usually take advice like that to heart, as I have for much of the excellent advice available on this website. But these tears, they were so genuine.
I'd never seen her cry before. I'd never seen her do anything else but have a happy demeanour. She was at her happiest when we were throwing pillows at each other or tickling, messing around. To see her cry broke my heart a little bit, to realise I had been the person to do that to her.
I said, "I am so sorry." I meant it. I felt awful, terrible. I held her on the bed and over the next hour managed to talk her down. The funny thing was too, I have probably never felt closer to her.
The sweet village girl in her came out. That's all a lot of them are, really. Deep down. Even the harder ones.
I just cannot imagine things like this happening with a brass back home. Would there be intimacy? I wouldn't describe her as sexy but she can be very intimate sometimes. When we have late-night talks she can really open up.
It's stuff like this that makes the Thai girlfriend experience different. You feel real emotions. Like a regular relationship, I'd been a bit of a dick yet learned from it. I wouldn't do it again. And here is the point I would like to make – By making her cry, I realised what I most liked about her, the thing I really loved about her – It was her happiness. Her serenity, her easy attitude to life. She loved life, she loved being happy. It took that moment to realise that. Some girls can live as freelancers and live happy, decent lives.
There, I've said it. Some girls can live as freelancers and live happy, decent lives. I just wanted to get that out there. There are so many negative viewpoints on people who visit Thai bargirls. The Thai Professor attempts to make paying for company the worst thing in the world, focusing on the sex as his first and last points. I bet sex is often quite far down the pecking order for men who see their girls as actual human beings.
Phet once wrote about his ex-wife – "She is enthralling and infuriating in equal measure, but no-one has ever enchanted me like she did." – Who hasn't felt like that about a Thai girl at some point, be honest? Apologies to Phet if he feels I have lumped his ex-wife into a bargirl debate which was not the intention. I just thought that was well written and it stuck.
Until I meet the right girl in life, I'm going to have a lot of fun with the wrong ones. Thai Airways is a shuttle that takes me directly to them. It doesn't make me sexy, or different, or cool, or clever. I'm just a 6/10 bloke who has found a way to be with 7/10s.
I know It will upset some people so I've learned to keep my mouth shut and just get on with enjoying my life. Of course, it's better to be in a relationship, a proper, loving relationship that will go the distance. All I'm saying is, if you don't look like Leonardo Di Caprio, or if you're finding it difficult to meet up with attractive women back home, you don't have to throw yourself under a bus. There are alternatives available and I don't mean the top shelf of W H Smiths.
I know I'd probably feel different if I lived in Thailand. Reading Stickman's responses, they've gradually changed over the years as his eyes opened to the more unsavoury aspects of the Thai nightlife. But to me, and I'm sure many others, the magic is still there a little bit. A night out in Pattaya can be like watching a magician at times. And like watching a magician, I don't want to know exactly how its done. I'm not ready for that yet. I don't mind if people think that's head-in-the-sand behaviour – you're probably right.
Try and stay as self-aware as possible. You can fall in love with these girls. I am already well aware that these years will probably go down as "my wilderness years" – and if I do meet the right girl in the future I'll probably dribble into my drink, and say to friends, "Back in 2013 I was in such a bad place with my life etc." It's been a lot of fun though, a hell of a lot of fun. I wont be allowed to admit it then, so I'll admit it now.
Being a visitor to the Thai naughty nightlife is not something that anyone should display with pride, just like you probably wouldn't display with pride paying for a pair of shoes. It was just something you did as you lived your life. I'm not attempting to justify anything and I have no delusion. But as I mentioned before, relationships ARE always interesting. So if you want to come on this site and tell your story, don't let people like the Professor put you off.
Let Prof suggest how seedy and predictable you are, while you and your freelancer girl are having a pillow fight and laughing together. Let people paint awful situations, while your girl is quietly nudging you in the dead of the night because she's "in the mood". It's impossible to generalise about prostitution, surely you take each case on its own merits? Show me a bad situation and I'm sure I'll agree that its a bad situation.
I think people are drawn to the Thai bargirl scene, and particularly freelancers, because it's NOT like getting together with a prostitute in your own country. It really isn't. Marriages can come of it, and long friendships. Ever heard of anyone having an enjoyable relationship with a brass back home? Marrying one? I haven't.
When you think of a prostitute in your own country, think of what they look like – Terrifying, chunky ogres in huge boots and fishnets, leaning into cars. Compared to some of the lovely girls in Thailand its as different an experience as marijuana is to crack cocaine.
So was she really different? No. Am I really different? No. But the Thai girlfriend experience – and there's many people who will really hate to hear this – but – It really is different. It's not the same as getting together with a brass back home. There's nothing like it anywhere else in the world. And that's why people always keep coming back for more.
Do what makes you happy while maintaining a decent level of respect with those you interact with. If it's bargirls who rock your boat, then so be it.