Stickman Readers' Submissions July 6th, 2012

Seeking Thai Bargirl Advice

I met her on ThaiFriendly last year. We had been chatting for a while until I met her in person in December last year. She was frank from the start about what she was doing as she said she wouldn't want me to find out later. She said she used to work as a coyote but now got bookings from customers she met earlier or through an agency. She also arranged for tours through the city, and worked at a bar in soi 23 at weekends mostly. She said she had fxxxed both girls and guys. So nothing was hidden. She also told me her life story, and that she appreciated me because I never asked for her to show her tits on Skype or do anything filthy. Well, I went to Patong after a couple of days, and on Skype one day a guy was walking behind her in her condo into the picture. She covered the screen so that he couldn't see, and told me then that this guy was sending her money, she felt bad about him because she couldn't go to work while he was there, and she wanted to cut him loose but felt a pity for him as he had lost his job in the US and was a nice guy overall and he felt she was his fiancé.

I made my first mistake then, since I asked her if she also wanted to know what I was doing in Patong. I heard that even bar girls are sensitive about this because they consider you then a butterfly, and just as one of the other guys.

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I returned to Bangkok since I missed her. Her grandmother had passed away and that gave her an excuse to meet me during the day. We met usually after she returned from the funeral ceremonies at 19:00 and then hung out until 2 AM when the guy started to give her repeated calls.

Apparently, she had a falling out with someone that sent her money so she had to start working as a gogo in Tilac bar in January. Not as a coyote but as a gogo, so she probably had her quota of fxxxing guys and drinking. She told me about who she had been fxxxing occasionally, and that this guy hurt her and she was bleeding and so on. Back then I talked to her on Skype a couple of times a week, then suddenly she was a bit more silent and she had some exchanges with a guy on Facebook, so I assume they had gotten together a bit too. I never verified this. I had in my mind that she was fxxxing many dudes.

When I heard this story about the one guy forcing his finger up her arse and hurting her, and she was sick with fever for a whole week, I thought I should give her a holiday from the bar. She had said that she would love to join me when I usually go down to Patong in March. She said however, I would have to pay the bar fine of 600 a day, and some 14,000 for 2 weeks for her family. That sounded to me quite alright.

3 days into Patong, she just couldn't resist the urge to have internet anymore and talk to her customers. So she upgraded her phone package to an all-inclusive internet pack, and from then on she was constantly on Facebook and chatting on msn messenger even long after 4am when we returned from the clubs. She was also a bit moody. When she said she hadn't seen anything from Phuket yet, I reminded her that she was usually sleeping until 13:00 every day, to which she replied it was so boring because we only went to the beach and my friends home. I took her to the clubs and bars were I usually go and at one bar she started crying (I suspect she was jealous because all the girls know me there, but I asked her if she wanted to see what I was usually doing in Patong and that it was all harmless playing). Also one girl came over in a club to say hi to me. I hadn't seen her in a year when we were hanging out for a week. My friend was visibly jealous and after the girl had left asked me "who who who".

I just describe this to show that apparently she felt something for me. Back from Phuket I stayed one night in her apartment in Bangkok before flying home. I think this decision was somehow hard for her, even though I had been in her apartment already when we met first time and she had been cooking for me. But we never spent the night there. I think only some 2 other guys were actually spending the night there.

Back from Phuket she said repeatedly how much she missed me, so I flew back to Bangkok just some 2 weeks later. Strange enough that her tone seemed to change suddenly some 3 days before I left, and one day she was not available at all for talk. The reception in Bangkok was also slightly cool and professional. I don't know what had changed. She wanted me to accompany her to the bar she was working now as a coyote. She said I shouldn't be angry if she had to sit and drink with other customers and friends in that time. I was totally prepared to see her sitting and drinking, but I was quite outraged when she started French kissing one of her customers, a pretty deranged looking Japanese guy. Back then I thought she was just drunk and had let herself go. But the next night it got even worse with a drunk English guy she apparently had never met before and from which all other girls walked away or tried to avoid his hands when he reached out to grab them on the stage. She even encouraged this guy and even though I had bought her a drink that was waiting on the table sat with this guy who immediately started French kissing her, and she rubbed his dick. Then they went into the horizontal and he rubbed her pussy. She only let go when the waitress called her away. I was really angry back then but didn't say anything. She disappeared outside of the bar a couple of times and I was not sure if she tried to catch up with this dude but he had picked some bar girls in the meantime. Still he was reaching out to her apparently, as at some point she "complained" to me that he had tried to open her bra and tear it down. Only when the guy was preparing to leave did she start to complain how bad he was. She didn't get any lady drink from him, just a 100 baht tip. The next night she did the same with a Indian guy. Late at night even though the bar had officially closed she rubbed his dick and gave him a ride and French-kissed him.

Sitting and drinking with customers and some lap dancing are different in Europe. Customers are not allowed to touch. And not even the biggest hooker in Europe would kiss a customer on his mouth let alone French-kiss with all tongue. They are all aware of diseases like syphilis, hepatitis, herpes, and even the common cold and bronchitis. She had a bad cough that week, and she had to go to the doctor repeatedly and forked over some 1,300 baht for injection and pills. That's a multitude to what she gets from a customer as 100 – 200 tip, and I told her so. She answered that was her sexy style. The other girls were more selective with their customers and rather went for the Japanese spending big money, while she went for the trash bags who at best bought her 1-2 lady drinks and a 100 – 200 tip. While she was playing with this drunk English guy for nothing, her colleagues got a 1,000 baht tip each from an older Japanese guy who even returned the next night to do it all the same. He was content with just having some girls sitting next to him. I sensed that she might actually like what she was doing when even slightly drunk. That kind of affected my mood. The waitress said to me that she had told everyone I was her boyfriend, and asked me when I would take her with me to Europe. I said "does that look like my girlfriend" when she was riding the Indian guy, and the waitress said "that's just work". It may be work to give a lap dance, but its different to reach some ugly guy in his pants and rub his dick or French-kiss someone who is drunk and dirty. She avoided kissing me afterwards. I wished she had rather avoided kissing the scum of the world.

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In the meantime she had kind of hooked up with the boyfriend of her best friend. There was some romance going on which was clear to see from Facebook postings. She even fought with her best friend openly in the restaurant and even split up with her over that guy. When talking to her about this she defended the guy like he was her child, and said her best friend was completely nuts.

I returned to Bangkok the night before this guy was flying back to US. She had been so drunk the night before that he had taken her to his apartment. When we went out together for dinner and bar, she was moving to me even though the guy showed some affection for her by stroking her arm. He then left early claiming a headache. We then went to Hong Kong for a couple of days, and had a fallout when she was again French-kissing a customer even though she had promised not to right before the bar start. She moved out of the hotel room. We reconciled, but barely. In the morning she asked if I wanted to go with her to Hua Hin away from the bar for some 5 days. I would then have to pay her 20,000. I laughed, and she went down to 15,000. 40,00 or 3,000 a day are the rates she normally charges her customers so I said fxxx you I rather go down to Patong. Apparently, her pay from the bar was not enough to pay for her rent of 9,000 baht a month. I guess it was just the effects of her hanging out too much with the bf of her best friend. She probably sat together with him every night at the bar and gave a shit about the other customers so no money came in from drinks or fxxxs. I didn't want to pick up this tab. Also I felt like I was downgraded to customer as I had never paid her for a day except for Phuket when she was gone from the bar, or for the days in Hong Kong. So she not suffered a loss from her pay cut from the bar. She left the room, and I booked for Patong the next day. Before I started a bar tour that night. I passed her bar and her friends called me over and asked me why I was not there, and if we go to dinner after bar. I told them what happened and that she now wanted to get customer rates from me and that it was over. They wanted to call her out but I said no need and left. At 4 AM I was at the corner, and bumped into her former best friend. She called her and said she would be over in 10 minutes. I got some text messages in between where she claimed I was trying to make her lose face. Not the fact that she tried to get the money from me and treated me like an asshole was the matter, but the fact that I had told her friend when she asked me about it was the more serious problem. When she walked into the corner she was heavily in tears and marched toward me and slapped me in the face twice. I took her hands before she could slap me again, and she then turned and ran out. Her best friend was shocked and said we should talk this over. But she was gone. (later she told me she had been waiting for me around the corner in front of the hotel where I used to stay).

When I was in Patong I thought we couldn't go apart like this, so I said it was probably all a misunderstanding. She suddenly claimed she only wanted me to pay 3,000 whenever a customer offered to go with her, which would have been the same result and some kind of blackmail, but I played along. Since it was boring in Patong, I returned to Bangkok. She was happy when I was back. The first night. The second night there was a guy in the bar and she gave him the full program just made sure this time to avoid his kisses. She must have worked on him and sat with him for about an hour, and her drink was empty. She then tried to move this guy behind a column so that could see less. That made me angry again, and I asked her friend if it was free lunch in the bar now. I figure she wanted to turn this guy on, not have him buy drinks but rather secure him for the night. All girls have strict orders to only stay a couple of minutes after the drink is empty or move on. She moved to the restroom then, and another girl made his approach on the guy. She had seen my face and wanted to help me by blocking this guy out. He was paying for at least another 5 lady drinks for her and didn't get any lap dance or rubbing or kissing which shows that this is not necessary. When she returned from the restroom, the guy was now blocked and she came over to me. I asked her why she didn't order another drink fro him and she said he was new to the bar, it was his first time in such a place. Which is a "no answer". It is not a lie, but it doesn't answer the question. When the bar closed and the guy left he walked a bit up the street watching her sitting with another dude. Then he walked past her trying to catch her eyes. It didn't work. Only once he had passed she also looked after him. So that shows what she really intended that night.

Overall I think her attitude towards at some point got colder, but then again not. It was constant swings from day to day. After the arguments we had that's no wonder but we were still talking. We have been spending almost the whole day on Skype together for the past couple of weeks. But usually it is her listening to music or watching YouTube videos and chatting with customers occasionally, and I am allowed to watch her. That's how it feels. Either she likes watching me and me being there as well, or she think she can keep me happy by letting me watch her. That's what one of the old sugar daddies she has is fond of, he usually watches her from noon till evening on Saturdays and buying her phones and necklaces and monthly endowments for that service. Plus the occasional holiday.

Some 3 weeks ago a guy from ThaiFriendly walked into her bar. They had met before then apparently she didn't like him. I don't know the details. Usually I call her around 3:30 and then she goes on Skype so I can accompany her home from the bar. Now, that night (and what is usually the case when she has a customer) she didn't answer the phone. Next day she said she had been with a whisky seller from Scotland sitting all night in V8 (she called me at 11:00 and I hardly think she was until 6 or 7 in the morning at V8), but I heard from a friend in the bar that this guy was there and taking pictures and drinking with her. Next day we were again on Skype before the bar. I called her and only got half of her at 5 AM. She said she was sitting with a colleague and her American friend over dinner (true), and I shouldn't worry because this guy had a Thai girlfriend (a no answer again, since she fxxxed this guy after dinner and he invited her then to go down to Koh Samet with him 2 days later). She called me 16:00 next day, so she had spent the night together with this dude. We spent the whole Monday night together on Skype with the screen running while she was sleeping after bar up until 8am, then she got a call and I could hear a dudes voice and she answering in a soft tone. She got up and finished everything packed her stuff and only then Tuesday morning she admitted she was going to Koh Samet now for 2 days. So that was stories over stories but no lies. Just some no answers or a late revelation of the truth like she did so many times before. The guy was paying her good for that she said.

After she returned she was more pressing in terms of money. She had seen a golden necklace for 45,000 baht (no typo) that had been reduced to 24,000 baht, and seriously asked me if I could pick up half or about 11,000 baht. I offered her 5 baht. And she dropped the issue. By now she has actually bought that necklace and is paying it off in monthly installments.

One of her colleagues had met a guy who was willing to pay for her and my friend some 3 days holidays. Again she picked Koh Samet and arranged for everything. Or tried to. She claimed her credit card was not working and she couldn't finish the booking, and if could pick up the 10,000 baht for the 3 nights in the hotel, she would pay me back later. I saw the cash lying on the table they got from the guy, but still I figured I would fork over not a single baht to her. Well, she said they would then go without booking, adventure, and if needed sleep at the beach or pick up a guy to sleep with down there. First night in the hotel we talked on Skype with her friend in the room. The second day I couldn't reach her on the phone. She let it ring and ring. Then her friend who doesn't speak English picked up but I didn't know what she said. I tried again 40 minutes later, and then she answered. She said she had been on the toilet. Funny that she didn't call me back. And the battery was low and they were on their way to the beach. On Facebook she had posted two pics of her posing in a bikini with a hairy leg lying stretched out right in front. I asked her and she said that was the man from last week. I apparently should have thought that these were old pictures, but again she didn't lie. I suspect she had called the guy and he had just come down to for the next two days. As he didn't have to pay for the bar fine, he got her for a steal. Later at night she was with her colleague in her room, but no Skype this time what she usually uses with me, so she didn't want me to take a look, also not at the restaurant where she was earlier, even though the day before she had asked me to switch on Skype so I could see. The following day I called her in the morning. She said she was at the beach for nails and massage. She briefly switched to Skype and I saw her. When the connection broke down, I called her again, and I heard a guy in the back talking. Also she put the phone aside not answering, either she had forgotten to hang-up or she wanted me to hang up by just showing her disrespect. She did that before when she was pissed off she would not hang up or say she was busy but rather deliberately give me to a friend or a waitress who doesn't speak English or just put the phone on a table and let me lie there.

On the Thursday when she was travelling back from Samet I got no message until late in the evening when I called her up. Again she passed the phone to her friend. I wrote her a message then that I was pissed off about that and that she should just say when was busy or with a customer. With her one never knows if she wants to talk and appreciates the calls or if I'm running after her like a stalker.

I think by now we have gotten something like an emotional trash bin status. Whenever she fells lonely or in pain or is in need to be brought home when she is drunk we are being called in. The rest of the time when she is with her friend we have no value and are being dumped around. Or if she has someone she kind of sets higher hopes on like the bf of her best friend or the Samet guy, then we are silenced out altogether. For some clients she told us that she had a booking and then I refrained from calling her. But apparently these are not the contacts close to her heart and soul, so that's why she can speak easily about them.

Question is now how to find out and bring her to tell the true state of her feelings toward us. I read somewhere that a coyote or bar girl (and she has been fxxxing for money for the past 2 – 3 years) will never fully cut off a relationship since it brings money and presents when this guy returns. It has been with her a constant swing between some intimate moments and then complete professionalism and asshole-treatment.

I'm fully aware that she cant change completely over night. It takes time to bring the bar out of the girl if that ever fully works at all. That's why I have been swallowing a couple of times when I was going through the roof inside. And that's why I have been carrying this on even though I felt like a stalking asshole for calling her.

She doesn't want to leave Thailand due to her son and her family. Son is living with his father. Her relationship to the family seems to be like a slave, she tries to buy their affection and love with money. And the family sucks her dry and regards her as ATM. A cousin comes and brushed her hair every night so that she can be sent into the ring again and bring in cash. Her honesty in this regard and the truth about her family are also something that let me stick to her.

It seems like she has two faces. A sweet and hurt inner core. And the layers of coldness and distance and exploitation and manipulation she has built up over the years first due to the hatred from her family and then from the bar business.

Has there ever been a story of how to break through all that and how to do that?

I think she may need a sign of commitment from my side. She asked for "ring ring" in some moments when she was admitting her affection to me..that came more as outbursts in unexpected moments and not like sweet-mouth lies, so they were genuine. It was more like connected to some anger like "why don't you finally get me out of this". I just figure that buying her a ring might only be another present at her finger. Only if that would really carry some meaning for her would I pay a single baht for it. I just want to hear from her where she wants all this to go. What she wishes for. I am ready to take care of her and her family with all the financial demands that follow. These are really small, and even if they would double it would be ridiculous.

But she couldn't even tell me that she was hungry one night. And she didn't even tell me what she wanted when we were on Phuket, rather she keeps silent and sleeps long as a sign of frustration with sign I cant read from her mind.

So if your experience with these girls is any help, it would be highly welcome. But since you are also a farang and not part of a more trusted Thai and girl culture, I doubt there would be progress.

I'm flying to Bangkok again in two weeks. I hope I don't get into another fight with her over her customers (the Samet guy especially).

Stickman's thoughts:

The advice here is short and simple: WALK AWAY!

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