The Loser’s Paradise
I first went to Bangkok with my family about seven years ago. I had just turned sixteen. I'm a half-Chinese girl, tanned, and westerners sometimes mistake me for Thai, although no Thai ever does.
Obviously I wasn't exposed to that much of the naughty nightlife, but I kept on getting glimpses that aroused simultaneous fascination and disgust. Waiting for the toilet on the plane, a bald fat man three times my age, three hours in and already stinking of alcohol, introduced himself in pidgin English and tried to put his arm around me. At the airport, a westerner asked my dad if he and I were on our honeymoon. At breakfast at the hotel there were always a few old western men with tiny dark twenty-something Thais, mostly not making conversation, just going up to the buffet and eating in silence. If I'm honest, I found the whole thing deeply disturbing. I found myself speaking with my most English accent at a much higher volume than I would have otherwise, so that I wouldn't be mistaken for a Thai girl, so that old men would stop staring at me like I was a piece of meat.
When I got back I found Stickman, and got depressed. Hundreds and hundreds of submissions, repeating thoughts which I found repellent: men want a subservient sex machine wife half their age, and want it enough to deal with her past as a prostitute, dishonesty, and inability to communicate on a deep level with her. Western women are uniformly discussed with loathing and contempt. The readers seemed to want so much (to be loved and adored for themselves, rather than for their money, by nubile always-willing girls twenty years younger than them) and also to settle for so little (to continue to date girls who are repeatedly dishonest, disloyal, disinterested and who can't have a real conversation with you).
I went to Thailand a few more times after that, sometimes visiting family in Bangkok, sometimes with friends. I was always scrutinising the things I saw, to see if Stickman held some kind of hidden truth and all men are terrible. What I've learned is that I have nothing to worry about. The bar scene is a very narrow view of Thailand, and appeals to a very particular kind of man. Not every man. Essentially – it appeals to the western loser.
Stickman is a community of these losers. Within it there are certain things everyone agrees on, the myths of the losers. Within the community these are true, that is, they are true if you are a loser. There is nothing wrong with this. If I was unfortunate enough to have some kind of handicap that meant I'd be a loser in the west but a winner in Thailand, I'd be there like a shot. If I was an older man, not particularly successful or attractive to women, without any satisfying ties in the west, I would probably be balls-deep in some desperate Thai bargirl too. I might even start trying to convince myself that she loved me, because, after all, how else am I going to have access to love?
I attempt no moral condemnation of the loser for retreating to Thailand: whatever makes you happy. What I object to is the loser who, because he is a loser in the west, decides to denounce the west, the western woman, the western relationship. You're
a loser, you have no idea how great these things can be. What bothers me about Stickman is all the self-aggrandisement: 'I paid for sex with a 22 year old Thai girl tonight – look, I'm a sex god, look I'm not a loser anymore';
'I will convince you that my Isaan girl is beautiful, because I need you all to agree, so that you agree that I'm a sex god, look I'm not a loser anymore'.
The sex is fine, no judgment, whatever makes you happy. It's the delusion I can't stand.
Let's deal with some of them in turn:
Delusion no 1: Thailand is a sex paradise
Well, it's not paradise because you're paying for it. One way or another, either in barfines, paying for dinner, paying for her family's dead buffalo, marrying her.
If you're good with women, the west can be a sex paradise. I had a fling with an ex-model who slept with fifty new and different women one year. Didn't pay a single one. They were good looking, financially independent, educated -that is, none of them were Thai girls from the countryside with no education and few options. He had a good job, was good-looking, was charming in his own way: he was not a loser.
It's also not paradise if they don't really want to.
I mean, your bargirl may seem enthusiastic, but take away the money and give them a bunch of other options and see how much of a girlfriend experience you get. If you're not a loser, however, you can actually get a girlfriend, rather than just the
experience of one. I always think half of the joy of sex is knowing that the other person is so attracted to you they just want to please you, that they have no other agenda. Granted, it's probably not an option because you're a loser.
But don't diss the real thing if you've never had it. My friend did a gap year teaching in Bangkok. His take on the GFE? 'I get one when I want a pussy-wank. It doesn't mean anything. There's no connection. I don't
really feel like I've had sex since I broke up with my ex'.
Delusion no 2: Thais are beautiful
Thai girls are actually pretty ugly. Even the girls on TV and the adverts are not particularly attractive. Their skin is terrible, they don't walk, they waddle, and their faces are oddly masculine and angular with stubby noses. They're noticeably uglier than other Asians (the Japanese, Chinese and Singaporeans). Whilst their bodies are slim, they're not toned and they have mostly flat chests.
Thai girls are basically all 4s – 6s. Even the ugliest one will still be a 4 if she has a standard Asian body, giving her an advantage over some western women who are too fat to make a 4. But I haven't seen an 8, 9 or 10 anywhere and I see them all the time in the west. <Obviously you never rode the skytrain where at peak hour you see some incredibly attractive women going to work or heading home – Stick> I say all of this looking more Asian than western, so I'm not advancing any personal agenda here. Of course, the western loser thinks Thai girls are beautiful because he would never get a 4 in the west. He's a 2 so he'd be getting a 2. He then says 'all the western women who will sleep with me are ugly' and from this writes on Stickman, 'all western women are ugly'. It's a fallacy.
I have a friend who is Eurasian and gets mobbed every time he's in Thailand. Schoolgirls come up to him and ask him to take photos with them. He's that attractive by Thai standards. He's never touched a Thai girl, thinks they're too
ugly. His girlfriend is a 5'10" blonde, blue-eyed med student a year younger than him. See, he's not a loser.
Delusion no 3: Thailand's culture is more sexually permissive than the west
This is something I've read a few times written on Stickman by sex tourists and I just think it's utterly wrong. Don't think that as you go from bar to bar and barfine your bargirl that you're tapping into some kind of authentic part of Thai culture, or that well brought up Thais would look upon you as respectable.
Of course, if everyone you meet is a prostitute, you're going to think everyone has a prostitute's attitude to sex. Upper middle-class Thai society is still a lot more conservative than the west – my relatives, for example, are shocked that I'm allowed to live alone. They talked in hushed tones of horror about friends of theirs whose children sleep together when at university. University dorms in Thailand are still single sex. <This is complete and utter nonsense. Many university students in Thailand shag like rabbits and have many partners. There's one particular road near the biggest university in Bangkok with a bunch of abortion clinics to deal with the "aftermath" – Stick> The thing with westerners is that Thais (along with most Asians) think westerners in general are so morally corrupt that they don't bother holding them to the same standards as they would hold themselves to.
I think the 'Thais are very sexual people' myth arises because sex tourists don't want to admit that what they see of the Thai culture is the seedy underbelly of it. Also because they want to believe that their new ex-bargirl girlfriend is just part of a mainstream sexualised culture, when in fact the truth is that she is a whore. You wouldn't pick up a hooker in some grimy Soho street and then make her your girlfriend, right? Even if she was super hot. So why is it different in Thailand? The truth is because the sex is cheaper so you don't feel so scammed. The delusion is because Thai culture is different, and there's something magical about Thai culture that makes a whore not a whore but wife material.
Oh, and the idea that western women are not interested in sex? No, loser, they're not interested in having sex with you.
That Thai girl is paid to be interested. If you found a western woman with no education, no prospects, a kid to support and no social security and offered her an equivalent amount in terms of purchasing power to have sex they might do it too.
Delusion no 4: I am her saviour
I pay for her dinner, her rent, give her money for her parents, but she's not grateful. Why should she be grateful? You're still fucking her, right? She's still telling you nice things about how great you are, right? That's the deal.
If I buy a new watch, I pay money, I get a watch back. I don't expect the watch-dealer to be deeply grateful to me. It's a fair trade.
So many Stickman readers seem to think that when a bargirl says she loves you there's a magical transformation and you're suddenly two loved up romantic heroes in a classical romance. Wrong. You're still a loser, she's still a whore. The whole I love you thing is part of the service, blowjob makes you feel good, right, being told that you're loved does too. It's not actual love, where you love a person for their soul, for who they are and everything they can be. It's just part of the trade. She's trading her body and the illusion of affection for what you have to give. Be happy with that, because you're still getting a good deal. But don't get angry because she's not 'grateful', you are her customer not her romantic hero knight in shining armour. She's not lying, she's giving you what you paid for.
My point is: call a spade a spade. Call a whore a whore. And call a loser a loser. Don't blame the west for your own inadequacies, just be glad that you've found a place where you can be happy in spite of them.
This is a really difficult submission to comment on because I do agree with some of what you say. Guys who think they're great because they sleep with lots of prostitutes make me laugh. On that instance we're in total agreement. But there are VERY few guys do that. Don't mistake guys talking about an issue and sharing ideas as thinking they're great.
The difficulty is that you water down your submission by including many factual inaccuracies, making broad statements about things that you clearly don't know about and talking exclusively of guys with bargirls – which is just one subset of Stickman readers and Westerners in Thailand.
It seems clear to me that much of your submission is based not on what you have seen with your own eyes, but what you have been told by Thais you know. Thais love to tow the company line and will tell you what you want to hear, or what they want you to hear – and believe about Thailand *whether it is true or not. They will not necessarily tell you how things really are!
While a lot of the comments and stories on this site concern bargirls, many do not. There are many Western guys in Thailand who gets HEAPS of sex (way more than your 50 different girls in a year friend) with non-bargirls and don't pay a cent! When I was actively chasing regular Thai women online, I must have slept with more than 50 in a year – and I am no model!
I know *heaps* of guys here in Thailand in the same boat, who have had heaps of good, mutually satisfying sex with non-prostitute Thai women, women with regular jobs – and some of these guys are well into their 50s. Money did NOT change hands. Care to explain that….? While Thailand is socially conservative, many Thais see sex as a pleasurable bodily function and they do not feel the sort of guilt about it that many Western women feel….as you appear to!