The Loser’s Paradise – My Thoughts
As expected this submission has drummed up a lot of interest from the Stickman community but in my opinion like the original submission a lot of the responses are based on misunderstanding due to being unable to relate to each other. I get the sense that some people just read the title and go into rant mode without even reading the submission assuming it’s the fat female feminist or insert any other generalisations, and descend into the us against them frame of mind. Everyone has different life experiences and perceptions of reality, all are valid, and by knowing how other people interpret events is how we grow as individuals. Now make room, it’s time for me to make my own sweeping generalisations.
First of all, I thought since she clearly mentioned “English accent” as well as referenced hookers in Soho so she is English and by that I mean by nationality and of mixed English and Chinese ethnicity. So I don’t know why people have said otherwise or even said she is Asian. As a mixed person myself or if you ask other mixed people and even foreign born Asians their identity is always a difficult subject. As I mentioned in my previous submission, my formative years were in the countryside of England I always perceived myself as English through and through and although I can’t remember clearly I probably didn’t acknowledge my Singaporean Chinese side too much. However this was not a conscious decision this was simply a bi-product of the close to 100% white culture I was surrounded by and I did not give it too much conscious thought.
It wasn’t until I was in my later teenage years did I start to become more exposed to the other half of my identity and in my opinion started to mature. I realised there was another half to me which I had completely ignored or at least I wasn’t shown and I started to consciously think about my identity. Today although I still consider myself English, not just by my passport but also through my belief system, I still respect the fact that I am mixed and acknowledge its influence on who I am as a person which I think is a much healthier viewpoint.
Whilst this may seem off topic it does allow me to relate somewhat to this mixed girl as I am pretty sure we have had similar experiences. In my opinion she is what I was like when I was a teenager. By this I mean she is a complete banana, although she goes through the motions I feel her Asian side has very little influence on how she thinks. This is demonstrated by her thoughts on attractiveness regarding Thai girls as well as how she proudly announces how her Eurasian friend turns down Thai girls in favour of the Western ideal of blonde hair etc. I used to think this way also and although natural considering my upbringing I realise now it was narrow minded and I was brainwashed.
Having said these things I can’t comment on Eurasians who have been brought up in Asia; it would not surprise me if their experiences have been the exact opposite to mine.
I have no reason to disbelieve the author is a girl because some of the things she has said I could see and have seen my own sister saying. My sister has also said that she can feel uncomfortable walking around with our father alone in Singapore in case there is some kind of mistaken identity. Now Singapore doesn’t really have the same negative stigma as Thailand does so this effect would be multiplied in Thailand.
This is where some of the anger from this submission probably comes from, the P4P scene has robbed her of a pretty basic human right to do something as innocent as going shopping or to a restaurant with your own father. Since her father is obviously white/English she probably feels her parents relationship has been cheapened by the well known P4P scene and to a much lesser extent mail order brides (assuming her mum is Thai-Chinese). Since she mentioned she is more Asian looking she probably also feels that she will be tarred with the same brush, in that she will also gain a reputation for being easy and at worst a prostitute which has happened twice just on the plane. So basically for the enjoyment of a minority of men so they can have sex they have affected many other people’s lives in a negative way including legitimate couples, their children, extended families even single guys trying to find a real relationship.
So yes, being from the west we all agree to do what you want to do and don’t care about what other people think. However that effects many people even though you don’t spend time to think about it.
Since she obviously hasn’t spent much time on Stickman and why should she considering her demographic, her argument somewhat lacks focus so you have to read it with this in mind. She wrongly assumes that every reader is in the P4P scene, I am certainly not; however you must admit this is a normal assumption to make considering the bulk of submissions as well as half the weekly column for years is on the subject and so you will be guilty by association another normal social reaction. Now compare it to the assumptions we have all made on her ONE submission. With this is mind I think she is for the most part directing her submission to those in the P4P scene and even a subset of that, the ones that are deluded
“The bar scene is a very narrow view of Thailand, and appeals to a very particular kind of man. Not every man.”
“The sex is fine, no judgment, whatever makes you happy. It's the delusion I can't stand.”
So if you are not in this subset you don’t have to take it personally she is not talking about you, however I mentioned her submission does lack some focus and some of her points do overlap into every foreign man in Thailand. Essentially from her stories in her second paragraph and the quotes she is really complaining about what a lot of people on this site complain about anyway i.e. the low standard of westerner that comes to Thailand which are basically the dregs from our respective home countries, the losers. I don’t understand the way they think, I am not one of them, however I could imagine the stories to be plausible particularly if they had been drinking. I am sure some members of Stickman have met some weirdoes in Thailand.
“What I object to is the loser who, because he is a loser in the west, decides to denounce the west, the western woman, the western relationship. You're a loser, you have no idea how great these things can be. What bothers me about Stickman is all the self-aggrandisement: 'I paid for sex with a 22 year old Thai girl tonight – look, I'm a sex god, look I'm not a loser anymore'; 'I will convince you that my Isaan girl is beautiful, because I need you all to agree, so that you agree that I'm a sex god, look I'm not a loser anymore'. “
This is true to the subset of people she is talking about. Like I mentioned in a previous submission about the self-aggrandisement some people just have to go on and on about their sex life to complete strangers for what is essentially an ego boost. This is why sex reports aren’t even allowed on this site however I think I am right in thinking there are other sites dedicated to this.
Denouncing the western women does happen a lot on this website just read the submissions. These come about because the man is bitter that he has been mistreated and can only get an unattractive wife and because it is easier to blame someone else than look at yourself for your own misfortunes and hence the western woman gets the blame. I admit feminism has gone way over the top but the reason why some people suffer more than others is because most people are weak and will do anything to make their girlfriend happy, this is evident by the number of people that get scammed by bargirls and ones that even marry them.
Weak men are NOT attractive, being the beta provider is not attractive in the west. She mentions her experience with an alpha male, the ex-model, she does this to show you that it is possible to sleep around in the west on a regular basis not by using money but by simply being an attractive male through wit and charm and in this case also good looks. Having said this, this guy is probably more in the “asshole” category but you can still have this guy’s success whilst still being a nice guy BUT an alpha at the same time. A woman doesn’t want to control you even though she might say she does , she will test you continuously, be man and she will love you for it. Of course it doesn’t make sense to us men that she would loudly proclaim to be number 51 but it does show, to quote a blog I read “For most women, five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta.” The thing with Asian girls is that they are more concerned about financial security and so more forgiving of weak/beta-provider traits compared to western girls although certainly not immune. Which one are you?
Delusion number 1, I’ve already mentioned that the west can be one too but I don’t think the following is true
“Thailand cannot be a sex paradise because we are paying for it”
Do you really think your ex-model friend has a connection with those women? I don’t think so, he was probably in it for the sex, so once you strip it all down to the sex both the P4P scene and your ex-model is basically the same. As a guy I would say sex in a one night stand situation and I would imagine with a prostitute is almost identical although you don’t have the thrill of the hunt. I would say, for me, one night stands do get boring after a while, it doesn’t really matter who the girl is, they are directly interchangeable and is merely a selection process until you find the one which is girlfriend material.
With regards to her thoughts on the attractiveness of Thai women, is obviously laughable. What I will say to her is this though; when my Thai-Chinese cousins went to Singapore they asked me where are all the pretty girls as they didn’t see any. Singapore like every country has its pretty girls you just need to know where to look. But if I were to rate the prettiest girls in Asia, Japanese and Korean girls are certainly up there although with all the surgery and make up it is hard to judge. Japanese girls are by far the worst walkers in the world, some of their legs are now deformed thanks to trying to walk in heels far too high for them. Again, I did mention in my previous submission that the attractiveness of Thai girls with western men in Thailand is not generally great so I can agree with certain points. To comment on another submission it does affect your status in Thailand especially if your girlfriend looks and dresses like a bar girl.
Delusion number 3 is a tough one, Thai culture is transitioning and in my opinion in terms of sex has two extremes. Some girls are very open whilst some are very traditional although I would say the majority of the younger generations in Bangkok are very open to at least to the same extent as England. She must realize she contradicts herself by saying her Eurasian friend gets mobbed when he is in Thailand. Does she not think that this guy could not have a fling with the majority of those girls if they are that attracted to cold approach him? Having said this it depends on how you interpret what she said, it is undeniable that people that partake in the P4P scene have a very distorted view of the average girl.
Delusion number 4 or “White Knight” syndrome is typical of the beta-provider’s thinking that if I treat her so well she will love me for it, no she won’t she’ll despise you for being so weak. I assume if someone suffers from this syndrome the rest of their personality will be similarly needy and suffocating and would suffer in the dating market back in the west. Again as a disclaimer you can still do these things and still be attractive however it is hard to get the right balance. Although I did read a post on a Thailand related blog that said this
“90% of foreign married men living in Thailand are married to prostitutes. The numbers about foreign men and bar girls are estimates but based on the actual numbers of visas and marriage registrations.”
Basically there was a whole load of commotion when the figure of 90% was mentioned. The validity of the figure was brought into question and I have no idea how accurate this figure is but there is usually some element of truth behind figures which would lead me to believe a decent percentage have the white knight syndrome to some extent although still in the minority. <This 90% number is ridiculous and way over the top – Stick>
To summarize, her submission should be read with certain constraints in mind and so I believe she is mainly referencing the section of people who partake in the P4P scene who are deluded. Deluded in the sense of every Thai girl is the same as a bargirl and also hates western woman and uses every opportunity to put them down. I acknowledge certain parts of her message are ambiguous and sometimes contradictory although I believe the main point of her submission is not a new one to this site i.e. identifying that Thailand doesn’t really attract the best kind of people. The problem we have is that often people like to have a black and white view of things and there is never any middle ground and almost always the middle ground is where the truth is.
Just to tack this on at the end, since many people seem to mention that she is angry to see old men with younger woman and that she feels threatened by it. You cannot be serious! She automatically assumes the girl is a prostitute whether she is or isn’t, “loser” is what comes to every western persons mind when associating with prostitutes.
What is scary is that this young lady's thoughts are probably shared by many…