The Loser’s Paradise, A Half-Chinese Girl Speaks Again
Wow, what a lovely shit storm. I've just read the replies to my submission. Some are more thoughtful and better-reasoned than what I wrote and I'm touched people bothered to write them; some, obviously, are utterly moronic. But I think they deserve an answer, partly to clarify my original thoughts (where I think the tone of my piece obscured what I was trying to say to an extent), and partly to give me the right to answer back.
First, a few points about me. I really regret giving so much personal background in my original submission because it's laid me open to attack on classic schoolyard grounds 'nooo I don't believe you, you're a liar, you're ugly,
you smell'. So, to deal with a few of them.
Yes, I'm a girl. Yes, I'm 23 which is young but not so young that you can't have opinions. If you think a western-educated 23 year old is genuinely incapable of rational thought, unwise and immature, maybe consider whether or not a poorly
educated twentysomething Thai girl is capable of making a truly informed decision to sell her body for sex. Patronise me all you want but the more you patronise me, the more exploitative you paint yourself to be. To the man who based his entire
submission on me seeing the world like a 'Twilight' novel, Twilight is aimed at 11-13 year olds, I am ten years older than that, have two degrees, I've read Proust and James Joyce (though didn't find them that much fun), and
you may be older than me but that doesn't mean you're not much dumber than me. Twenty-three is not that young. No, I don't live at home; I have a job, it probably pays more than yours.
I haven't lived in Thailand or spent a huge amount of time here, but I've visited five times over seven years, staying between 3 and 5 weeks each time, I have family who are Bangkok locals and many Thai friends who I met when they were being
educated in the west and that's not a huge amount of experience but it's probably more experience of actual Thailand than longer sitting on a bar stool. Yes, on my first trip the Western Sex Tourist creepiness started on the plane, yes,
it was fucking relentless, do you think I'd honestly be so pissed off about it if I hadn't experienced it first hand? Yes, the crassness is astounding, doesn't mean it's not real. Yes, there are old-western man couples and
young Thai girl couples at breakfast even in the best hotels, I've stayed at most of the five star hotels in Bangkok and there's always at least one. Yes, I went to Patpong when I was 16, I wanted to see the night market, but you don't
need to go to the red light district to see seedy western perverts, they're everywhere in Thailand.
No, I'm not actually angry at my dad, my dad is great and I don't know how you jump from my anger at 'seedy western sex tourists' to anger at my dad (happily married to my mum who he met at school in the west, regular tourist). No,
I don't have some kind of inbred Chinese hatred of Thais, I like Thai people and I was brought up English, not Chinese. Just because you know I'm half-Chinese, doesn't mean it's a huge part of my identity, I just put it in
to explain why I think I get so much crap from the western sex tourists, they think I look Thai and to their tiny dick brains Thai = probably willing to fuck me. No, I'm not ugly, but if you'd prefer to think I am go ahead. Does that
make you feel better? 'Girl called me a loser but it's ok because I wouldn't want to fuck her, I bet she's fat, hahaha, I bet she IS fat, thank god, that was close, phew I'm not a loser anymore'. Yes, I'm not
the normal Stickman reader, no that doesn't somehow invalidate my opinions. I found the Stickman site because I was researching a freelance piece during my student journalism days. No, I don't hate older men, I know, like and respect
a lot of older men, I think most older men are nothing like the Stickman readership.
Yes, I'm young, yes I've had a lovely life, no, that doesn't mean that I can't feel contempt for you based on your behaviour. If the only opinion you consider valid is the opinion of similar bitter sad-sack divorcee fiftysomethings then go, prosper, compete to be king of the bottom-feeders, I have no quarrel with you. But replies in the style of 'I don't care what you think and anyway here's 2,000 words on why it's wrong' are probably a bit self-defeating, just a hint.
Now, some clarifications. The main criticism I've faced is that my piece contained generalisations. No shit. There are thousands upon thousands of readers' submissions and probably more readers than that so it's not that incredible that I'm talking in generalisations and not tailoring it to every single person's exact experience. It's quite clear from what I wrote that if you've never spent much time in the bar scene that I'm probably not talking to you. Stick's point that not all of Stickman is about the bar scene is fair enough – if you're not interested in shagging a bar girl or some Thai girl off the internet, fair enough, you're excused, I'm not talking to you. I suspect why people are taking it all so personally and feeling generalised is that some of what I said rings true for you, but you're sure you're different. Maybe you are. I don't know you personally. I can only talk about what I see and the conclusions I jump to. Maybe that fat fiftysomething farang leering at the twenty year old Thai girl is actually a close friend of hers, engaging her in a long conversation about the works of Albert Schweitzer. Maybe one in a thousand times that's true. And that time I would be wrong. But the rest of the time, it's probably something else. And that's why people generalise, because they're making a point which is generally true. I accept that I might be wrong about a couple of you. But I think I'm right about most of you.
The other point is that my submission was angry and judgemental. True. But what made me be angry and judgemental isn't so much that older men are getting laid (like I said, fair enough, whatever makes you happy), it's the particular tone of some of the submissions on stickman. Self-aggrandising. And, (some of them), utterly and completely poisonous about the west and western women. I've read submissions calling western women fat, ugly, trying-to-be-men (i.e. daring to be even the slightest bit emancipated), frigid, all guilty about the sex they have (thanks for that one Stickman, what was that you were saying about generalisations?), alimony-chasing cheating bitches, etc.
So yeah, I'm judgemental, but it's defensive judgementalism. What I was trying to say is, don't bash the west and western women because if you weren't such a loser, you wouldn't feel that way about the west. Thailand is amazing because there you can live like Hugh Hefner even though in the west you'd be the unsuccessful passed-over-for-promotion middle management guy who nobody wants to sleep with.
Everything I wrote was framed within this comparative context. Clearly I wasn't clear enough or you just didn't get it. So let's go through the delusions with extra help for those who didn't pay attention during reading comprehension:
Delusion 1: Thailand is a sex paradise
… compared to the west. My point is, sex is readily available in the west. You weren't getting laid in the west, it's not a big problem with western culture, it's that nobody wants you in the west (or at least fewer people do) and your paycheck isn't really big enough to support a habit for prostitutes in the west. My point about my friend who slept with the 50+ women was that if you're not a loser, there's lots of sex, free sex, going around in the west. There's not some big western women conspiracy to cheat men out of their rightful sex. Western women aren't frigid. They probably just don't want to fuck you. You're fat, you're unsuccessful, you're ugly, you're socially inept, you've got a really high opinion of yourself or something and western women realise that and don't want or need to have sex with you. People who responded saying 'I fucked twice as many women as that in Thailand' are missing the point. If you need to go to Thailand to get that much sex, it's either because there's something unattractive about you which western women can recognise/care about which Thai girls don't see; or, of course, in Thailand you pay for it. <Don't forget that many guys may simply prefer Thai (or Asian) women – Stick>
Oh, and just as a point, I do recognise that I was no 51 (or at least would have been if I'd shagged him that year rather than the year after), who gives a crap? Is that meant to make me feel ashamed? It was a mutually enjoyable experience with someone
I found attractive, and who I'm still on good terms with. Am I meant to feel guilty or like he 'won' this one and I 'lost' it? Like he stole my flower and I was too stupid to realise? It's sex, it's fun, we both
knew what it was. Stop with the misogynistic bullshit. This isn't the 50s. Although, granted, that was probably your heyday.
Delusion 2: Thai women are beautiful
….compared to western women. I called this a delusion because the way some of you talk you'd think that you chose Thailand for the beauty of the girls rather than for their availability. <Bingo, this is SO true – Stick> That the reason you married some Isaan bargirl is because she's the most beautiful woman in the world rather than because she's quite ugly, but still the most beautiful one who you could get. Obviously there
are some pretty Thai girls (although I think they're pretty few and far between), but all of the 'western women are so fucking ugly compared to Thai women' generalisations from Thai whoremongers are just delusional. You can't
make comparisons like that unless you're comparing like for like. Bangkok is a capital city and the women here are probably the prettiest you get in Thailand. I'm guessing that if you took your fat middle-aged sweat patched self to a
good club in a western capital like London or NY full of tight twentysomethings, you just wouldn't get in. You don't have access to beautiful western women, because they have better options. Comparing like for like, I think Thai girls
just aren't that pretty. I hardly ever see one so gorgeous it wrings my heart with jealousy (very female emotion), and I see them all the time in western cities and in Tokyo.
Of course, it shouldn't matter what I think because all that should matter is that you find the girl you're doing attractive. But I bet it bothers some of you. Strolling around with your Isaan girl on your arm, bragging with your body language, thinking 'God look at me, I bagged a stunner, I'm not a loser anymore'. I bet it bothers you that when most people see you they think 'look at that old guy with the ugly prostitute'. That's the reality you don't want to face.
Delusion 3: Thailand is more sexually permissive than the west
Mainstream Thai society is more sexually conservative than the west. If you think I'm wrong you either haven't been to the west recently, or you're a sexual pariah in the west, or your idea of Thai culture is very red-light district centric.
Sure, there are some Thai university students who fuck, of course there are. That doesn't prove anything. I bet you there are more who do in the west, and I bet they generally do it more openly with less fear of social stigma.
I make this point again to all the westerners who are like 'I can't get laid in the west because everyone there's frigid, it's nice to be in Thailand where everyone is more open and tolerant about sex'. They're not more open
about sex in Thailand. You just don't realise it. You don't see the contempt in peoples eyes when you parade around with a hooker half your age, but just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
This isn't something which is said so much, as obvious from the Average Western Sex-Tourist In Thailand's (AWSTIT) demeanor. It's crass, it's creepy, it's leery and it's embarrassing for everyone. For some reason the AWSTIT thinks going to Thailand allows them to act like the disgusting dirty old men they are on the inside, because Thailand is so sexually permissive. Well, maybe you can do it in Patpong. But just FYI, from the other person's point of view, you look like a pervert and a loser. Like you've escaped from the brown raincoat and dingy cellar of a sex video shop that you rightfully belong in. You're not fitting in with the main body of Thai culture, you're it's seedy little underside, its toenail clippings. And when you go out of the red light district and behave like you're still there you're the toenail clippings in the entree -disgusting, unwelcome and a complete fucking embarrassment.
If you don't care what anyone thinks, more power to you, continue. But if you're walking around thinking 'check me out, everyone is impressed that I'm with such a young Thai girl, I rock, I'm not a loser anymore', get real.
People are probably looking at you with contempt, they've just got good enough manners to veil it. Most normal people find out that a guy uses prostitutes and their respect for that person plummets – this is true everywhere, including Thailand.
That's why most men in the west, and I guess men in mainstream Thai society who use prostitutes, keep them hidden. Same goes from dating a desperately poor, uneducated girl who you find it hard to connect with because she has youth and not
that many options and you have money (or at least more money than her). But the AWSTIT doesn't fear this lack of respect, I think because of the delusion that they're impressive. Nobody is impressed. Most of us hold you in contempt.
Harsh but true.
I think the reason my original submission upset people was the tone I used – it was contemptuous. But I'm amazed that people think this contempt is my problem, a weird cultural or emotional problem I personally have that stops me from being able to see the true beauty of the Thai whoremonger. The truth is most normal people think like me. They see you old December leering all over your little Thai girl May and think 'what a disgusting creep, what a pervert, what a loser'. Of course, you shouldn't care. But, like Jayson said, you do care because you like the delusion, you think, or want to think, that we see you and think 'wow, what a sex god, how impressive, he's not a loser anymore'.
Yes, true, I'm probably a little bit less understanding than an older man might be, and I'm a lot less understanding than a fellow older man loser would be. In fact, if you want to escape the contempt of normal people you should probably only hang around with other western losers. You can talk about how horrible western women are to you, and agree on how you've only ever slept with ugly western women who weren't very nice to you. You'll all agree! You can show each other all the bargirls you've barfined, safe in the knowledge that the other losers will find them attractive and won't judge you for paying for them. You can all whinge together about the cheek of a girl who would dare to ask for 4,000 for her body and how annoying it is that Japanese with more money than you price you out of certain markets and the cheap sex you think you deserve. You could even make an internet site so you can create a huge community of western losers who will in general agree with you. After a while there will be certain things that you all agree are true, and you will forget that they are only true for losers, and you all agree because you are, pretty much, all losers.
But most normal people, normal westerners, normal Thais, not losers, they'll still hold you in contempt. So if you give a shit about what they think, probably best not to proposition girls young enough to be your daughters because to you they look a little bit Thai -or even remember that just because a girl looks Thai (or is Thai), doesn't mean that they're automatically desperate enough to fuck you. Maybe don't parade around with a prostitute outside of the red light district, practically holding a sign going 'look! I've found a place where my meagre salary will buy me a GIRL! Aren't I clever and isn't relative poverty fun?'. Remember that just because you're really impressed with yourself for finally finding a girl who appears to bear your company and enjoy your penis (even if it did cost you a few thousand baht), nobody else is impressed.
You're in paradise in Thailand; it doesn't really matter that you're a western loser. But, like it or not, that's how most of us see you, even if you can't see it yourselves.
I think this nicely clarifies the points you made in the first. For sure, you will be scorned by some of the readership and for sure you don't know what it is like to be an older white men in the West (and neither do I) but those points notwithstanding, you are very welcome to voice your opinions and perspective!