Stickman Readers' Submissions May 6th, 2010

All Thai Women Love Farang Men and Hate Thai Men

So there I was getting drunk and reading the latest tid bit about the kingdom when I came across a submission containing lists. Everybody loves lists. So I will make a submission about quotes. Everybody loves quotes. To save space these were ripped from the fluent English speaking Thai, Jayson.

“It’s easy to see how farangs can get such a distorted view of Thai women. They only know Thai women in the most superficial sense, or from where they have the easiest access. Which is to say the bar scene.”

He Clinic Bangkok

I should have just stopped reading here, but as it did win the coveted green star, I couldn’t help but see how this train wreck was going to be turned around.

“Well, Thai bargirls love farangs. Or rather, they love how you’re stupid with your money. “

Nothing like being stereotyped by an Asian perpetuating a stereotype. An Asian that is responsible with money, next you will be telling me that Asians like to take pictures!

CBD bangkok

“List #1: Typical Thai women with farangs in Thailand

1. From the impoverished areas of the northeast.

2. Poor with little to no prospects.

3. Below average level of education.

wonderland clinic

4. Single mothers.

5. Have had their heart’s broken by a Thai guy.

6. Unattractive, or at least below average in appearance.”

So here we have a list where 4/6 of the criteria describe the stereotypes Isaan women are subjected to, and we certainly know how well their kind are historically loved by the native Thai residents of Bangkok.

“Truly attractive Thai women who could have most any guy will almost never choose a farang guy.”

I could go on the whole beauty is in the eye of the beholder defence, but that isn’t the point here because as this submission is more about assumption than lists I will join in and assume the definition of beauty is tall, white skinned, western features, and well connected. I have never dated a woman like this <critical point this, in my opinionStick>, but have personally known people who have.

“A “good” Thai girl, or good person in general, is so subjective that I won’t even go there.”

So what is considered good cannot be quantified, but beautiful (by Thai standards) certainly can. Interesting.

“List #2: Normal Thai girls in Thailand

1. Doesn’t speak English, or prefers to speak Thai even when she can speak some English.

2. Doesn’t normally read Stickman, ThaiWheezer, or any other English websites.

3. Doesn’t work in bars.

4. Doesn’t date or marry non-Thais.

5. Doesn’t give farangs much thought in any given day.

6. Hasn’t traveled much overseas.

7. Would prefer to marry and have a family with a good Thai man.”

This list can’t be summed up as easily so I will go ahead and break it down. Point number one basically says that if a Thai girl speaks more than some English (whatever that means) she isn’t normal. As English is normally taught in Thai schools I would make the conjecture that the Thai people have decided that English is important enough that every normal Thai should speak some. Number two means any Thai woman who might disagree with you is already on the outs so you are covered from reproach. Number four is more of an issue of access more than belief. How many eligible farang bachelors are walking the streets of Surin on any given day? Oh wait Surin is Isaan and Isaan women fall in 4/6 of your list #1 and therefore are not normal Thai women…sorry. I argue with number five on the grounds that the entire Thai beauty industry is based around looking more like a westerner. I submit that while Thais don’t directly think about foreigners if they subscribe to what Thai media portrays as beautiful they aspire to look like foreigners which constitutes thought. As for number seven I can’t say for sure but my guess would be good man number one, and wherever they happen to have been born number two.

“What does a normal white woman in America seek? A white man, of course. So what would you say about a white woman who prefers black men? If you’re white, you’ll probably say she’s deviant. I don’t think it’s wrong, but it just simply isn’t the norm.”

Hey I am a white American man so I can comment with authority! Seriously white girls who date black guys do so because they grow up in an area with a majority of black people. Which supports my conjecture about access.

Then there was a big rant about communication. I couldn’t find a decent quote so I will simply say communication is the most important aspect of making relationships work. So the farang doesn’t speak Thai. He can’t learn? I thought the point of this essay was why normal Thai women will only date Thai men. Language doesn’t define ethnicity. I speak English, but I am not from England. In fact prior to immigrating to America in the 1800’s my ancestors were German, but I don’t speak German. Farangs can learn Thai, and they should if they want a serious relationship with any Thai even if she does meet all six of Jayson’s criteria.

“List #3: Normal Thai women preference in men, in priority sequence

1. A good Thai man with good prospects.

2. A good Thai man with some prospects.

3. A good Thai man with little to no prospects.

4. Foreigner group I (high status Asian, i.e., Japanese, Korean, Singaporean)

5. Foreigner group II (farang)

6. The lowest class of Thai men, no prospects

7. Foreigner group III (all others)”

This quote should stand on its own for ridiculousness. This reminds me of when I was in my freshman year of college and had an elective where we had to work in groups. This girl wanted to put a survey in our paper and made that her responsibility. We assumed it would be a proper survey, but the night before our paper was due she shows us her “survey” which consisted of her personal opinion on an issue with the word survey on top. It took the better part of two hours to convince the group not to include it and just take the hit on our grade rather than showing that idiocy to our professor. Understand?

“But I’ll say this: if a farang (or Japanese, or Korean) can speak fluent Thai, he’ll leap right up there on the list. So I’m saying “Thai man” under the assumption that the non-Thais can’t speak Thai very well.“

WTF?! Did you just contradict the majority of your article? Now it just makes no sense at all really.

“I’ve been told more than once by Thai girls that a tall, skinny, pale, spectacled, Chinese-looking guy is the ultimate. Go figure.”

I’ve been told more than once by Thai girls that a tall, farang-looking guy is the ultimate. Go figure. I guess the not saying something to make the listener feel bad when the issue is of non-importance aspect of Thai culture goes away when it is personal flattery. Go figure. Let me guess…are you tall? Skinny? Pale? Wear glasses? Maybe a little Chinese looking? Hold on while I google self-serving…oh shit.

“It baffles me to hear farangs seeking a Thai girl who speaks English. WTF? That’s not a normal Thai girl. And frankly, I can’t stand it when a Thai girl tries to speak English. They suck at it. Well, perhaps it’s because I’m fluent in English and can spot the lame, bargirl English from a mile away.”

Some farangs who come to Thailand and fall in love with the culture and the people are too on in years or just not adept at foreign languages. They recognize this in themselves along with the fact that communication is important so they wish to find someone who they can relate to in English. Still baffled? If so then I am now baffled too. Oh my God! In researching a good response for this quote I found out Thai women can be fluent in English too. This changes everything! Seriously though you are a real clown to look down on Thai girls struggling through English as speaking “bargirl English,” they weren’t born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

From there it becomes very hard to read as any type of semblance of an argument breaks down and just becomes a rant. It basically continues to bash all foreigners while occasionally giving the caveat to those who take the time to learn Thai. This drivel would have fallen into obscurity had it not been for our fearless leader taking such an interest in it. I get it Stick likes that it is by a Thai and perpetuates the idea that farangs should learn Thai. The problem is that it contradicts itself and relies heavily on stereotypes.

The worst stereotype in my opinion is in the first list. It is an obvious slam against Isaan women. Thais should be revering short, dark, and wide nosed as beautiful because attaining the model of beauty from a 100% Thai/Thai union is nigh impossible, and drives those with means to the plastic surgeon and those without to depression. He lists 4/6 obvious Isaan stereotypes as typical girls who seek out farangs, then says only abnormal girls would seek out farangs…well Isaan is 60% of the population. Since when is the majority not the norm?

I don’t know if Jayson will read this through or not. If he does I am sure at this point he will be smiling smugly because the truth is on his side regardless of the strength of his argument. The truth is there because he knows it is there, it has to be there. He asked some Thai women in his office if they would date a farang and they said, “No!” Well ask them how many farang have tried to date them, or how many outside of school and business they have associated with. Notwithstanding those who are hardcore anti-farang you might find that those who had the opportunity would give it a go.

I actually made it to the end and it appears Jayson was trying to help us, not insult us. Well here is a generalization I think will fly, people don’t like to be insulted. A lot of people who read this have Thai wives and girlfriends. Those people don’t take kindly to being told their love is an undesirable in her own country. You claim fluency, but you need help with writing an argumentative paper regardless of what you sycophant decides to award the article. And frankly, I can’t stand it when a Thai man tries to type English. They suck at it. Well perhaps it’s because I’m fluent in English and can spot the lame, international school English from a mile away. Hurts doesn’t it?

Stickman's thoughts:

While reading this submission, I happened to come across a thought about you and Jayson, which probably applies to much of the readership. You mentioned that you have never dated a tall, fair-skinned Thai woman, the sort that is generally regarded as the most beautiful type of women in Thailand by Thais. And likewise, I doubt Jayson has dated any short, dark-skinned women with the smallest of bridges on their nose. So I asked myself the question: how many of us have dated both types and in significant enough numbers for a sample to reach some conclusions. Not many at all, I should imagine… I think this is where part of the problem lies in the ongoing Jayson debate. Unless you have dated and experienced both – and in significant enough numbers i.e. not just 1 or 2 women, then there is a definite bias based on your experiences.

nana plaza