Stickman Readers' Submissions April 5th, 2010

Western Women Attitudes

Points to consider:

It seems that I (wanderlust) have started a bit of an interesting debate concerning the western women verses the Asian women counter part.

He Clinic Bangkok

My original submission was more or less about the need to acknowledge the difference between pursuing sex with prostitutes verses pursuing sex with the so called “western women” who are not prostitutes.

The submission was not really about the western women verses the Asian women but the following submissions have gravitated towards that issue because it is somewhat interconnected to the original submission.

I am satisfied that most guys here know well that there is far more sexual opportunity and or far more chance of finding a relationship in Thailand with a much wider range of ages as compared to living in the “west” or “north

That is a wonderful situation for any man and getting laid and or finding the love of your life is a big part of soothing a mans soul…plus it would be an adventure while doing so in Asia

CBD bangkok

Prostitution aside, it is true that Asian women, not all of course, like us or accept us for a variety of reasons. ( most men suggest money being the main reason)
The acceptance is a big part of what we want and that is a big reason as
to why many men decide to go to Thailand and try Thailand and experience Thai women or Asian women in general.

The believe that Asian women (those found in living in Asia) will be the answer, in part or in full, to a mans wants and needs is worth trying to find out about and or experiencing which results in all the more men “giving up”
on the western women and pursuing women from other regions of the world…Thailand included.

But, by suggesting that the western woman is just as worthy of our perusal and attentions and affections seems to bring out the bitterness in some men who have had negative life experiences with western women and the western system and values.

So that reaction brings up some other considerations and thoughts and points to be elaborated upon concerning the subject of the so called “western woman”

wonderland clinic

First off let me say that a debate can commonly stray all over the place so let us try to elaborate on some of the understood reasons or at least perceived reason why the western women, that we men like to lament about so often, has evolved
into what we men have to deal with in the last 50 years and all the more so at present.

But let us remember there has been several submissions before having touched upon or elaborated upon the western women subject matter based on the belief that the western women is to be avoided and the Asian women is better and worth pursuing
more so …in a nut shell …it seems that many men think this way.

Korski’ s last submission ( dated 1 / 4 / 2010) was the one that made the most sense to me and he is mostly correct when pointing out that all women are of the same nature, in many respects and it is not only the western women that
are confronting men all the more so than ever before.
They are all capable of confronting us but the social economic conditions that surrounds them in the poverty stricken or underdeveloped countries, such as Thailand, do not allow them to
confront men in any meaningful or very effective way, more often than not.
It just so happens the western women ( American or north American women more so than most other developed countries ?? ??) Are the women mainly believed to be the women
leading the ever growing legions of said to be “man haters” and or their seemingly “anti male” agenda.

Well that belief is subjective and full of misunderstandings and perceptions but what I have concluded is this:

Basically, when you observe the present behaviour of many western women we learn that she is, in effect, simply exercising her legal rights, the rights allowed by the laws of the country in which she lives in.

Most women are not bitches or anything close to it..but they can be if they are angry all the time about something(s) and what makes a woman angry, more often than not, is a man and the behaviour of men.

Asian women and many women around the world live in conditions or under conditions that are certainly not in the favour of women in so many respects.
It is called poverty, or certainly a significant imbalance in the social conditions
for the most part and the women are subject to the many negative social economical conditions that keep women down in many ways, far more so than men.
This is a great environment for the men in many ways but not good for the women resulting
in a underlying animosity and maybe even hatred of men or certainly loathing amongst women in general concerning how they perceive us to be and certainly how they are treated or get treated by men…our actions and how women are treated by men
speak volumes.

The rules and laws in most of the poverty stricken countries are controlled by men and most women have no or little recourse concerning the often abusive and controlling personalities of all too many men.

The question I always like to ask myself when I hear the seemingly sad stories about women winning everything in court battles and divorce cases is this:

What about the man …exactly what about the man and his character and his personality and his “attitude“ towards women while he bemoans women for acting in a manner that does not suit his goals and agendas.

It seems he is pissed off at women who are indifferent to the concerns and agendas of men and their attitudes towards men.

The men that bitterly complain about the small percentage of cases where women screw over men, using the law …even if it is , at present, often lopsided and in their favour.

I am not defending that..certainly not …and my heart goes out to any man or person who is unjustly treated and that in part is what I am trying to expose in “this” submission.
The injustices suffered by women at the hands
of men and the long reaching negative ramifications resulting in women fighting back…and sometimes in dirty ways.

This is a big part of where the attitude of the so called western women originates.

We listen to other men giving examples of a friend or 2 that had a bad marriage resulting in the ex wife winning everything or all too much in the divorce court and she did it by way of lies and deceit and manipulation.

I know it happens all too often to the point where it “is” a legitimate concern of men because it is a threatening social condition that has steered too far off course to be ignored any longer but we are trying to analyse and
understand why it has come to this.

But, still, I would really, really like to know all about the “personalities” and “characters” of these men and I am certain, very certain, I would learn they are, all too often, far from the pillars of society
and they would not gain much sympathy from the public in general and certainly not from a judge and jury in a court room if their life long “male behaviour” was to be truthfully and factually exposed.

Being a man and I naturally know more about men than women will ever know and or care to know about and the truth of the matter is I know all too many men are down right nasty, sleazy, low life, asshole characters and that is the fact of
the matter.

Clearly stated:

If I was a women and I knew as much as a man knows about men in general and the way men think and or like to behave and or their life long attitudes about women and things pertaining to women …I would run for the hills if I ever met most
of those men that I would meet or could meet in nearly all parts of the world.

One of the important overall questions being asked or evolving here in the submissions, directly or indirectly, is this :

“how did the modern western women evolve into what us men are now confronted with and what us men observe women doing at this present time in history“

The “answers” or suggestions I have seen several times in this forum seems to be based upon a consensus and more or less agreed upon that us men, us “weak” western men have let women take advantage of our weakness
and our “good nature”

That is a factor to be debated but I recognise something else more sinister and revealing

I respectfully disagree, “overall” and what I know to be the truth is this:

It is the opposite of our weakness that has turned the tables against us.

Men throughout the world including the “western man” have created the prevailing conditions we now see turning against us resulting in women standing up for themselves and protecting one another from the all too many historic
“abuses” and the “historic aggressions” of men, including all that “manly behaviour” that most men are so eager to protect at all costs.

It is “not” our weakness that has created this condition rather it is our aggressive male nature and what we are now experiencing is the back lash from 10,000 years of male dominance over women.

I know I am going to piss off a lot of male readers because it sounds like I am a spokes person for women's rights and the female equality issue.

I am not …I can assure you of that.

but if you think clearly here, for a moment or two, about how we are seen or perceived by women and understood to be by way of men’s historic “actions” and therefore seen and understood in the eyes and minds of women,
historically and or at present, we will begin to understand how they react to us…key word here…“react” to us.

The truth of the matter is we do not have a very good track record in “their eyes and their minds” and if we think about it there is a sad truth attached to the way men have historically treated women…the weaker and far more
vulnerable sex.

Although, presently and historically, we commonly act in compassionate ways and nurturing ways with heaps of generosity afforded women, men all too often perpetrate aggression and abuse and outright physical harm and damage inflicted upon
women and that fact is ever lasting and never forgotten by women…ever! …repeat never!

If you ask how the laws in the USA. and Canada and Britain and Australia etc, the advanced countries, the democracies with abundant freedoms and rights and protective laws for all citizens, came to the point where women have the means to
legally screw over a man, big time, you only have to research our own track record and easily learn just how long men have been screwing women over in a number of ways.

Like what you say?

If that is your response and question then you are feigning ignorance about mans nature and all the historic grievances and complaints coming from women that have continually been ignored…until now!

For example, here is something that really pisses off women and for good reason.

All those so called “manly virtues” that we like to practice resulting in men , the world over “sport fucking” women, while getting them pregnant and then abandoning them resulting in god only knows how many fatherless
children in the world with absolutely no support from the same dick head, irresponsible men who impregnated them.

That was the way it was in times past and the way it still is in many countries..but not so or far less so in the western countries with laws that protect women from such manly male behaviour.

That may not be you or any one you know…but there is a disturbing percent of men who do just that everywhere in the world.

That is why there are “child support” laws based on legislation aimed at all those useless shits that abandon their spouses and children and refuse to support the children just because the children are connected to the women
they can not come to terms with.

I know it is more complex than that but the point is the legislation and laws are enforced for good reason and all you good guys out their should be just as pissed off as the women because the irresponsible conduct of so many men is what
is choking the rest of us.

Those laws evolved because of all the crap that men have dumped on women for so long.

It is that typical male behaviour and attitude that is the bases of the dilemma we are confronted with…not because we are weak and not standing up to women.

If you think that women are going to go on accepting this “typical male behaviour” without recourse when they now have the means to lawfully make men responsible…in countries like the USA. and more countries than ever before
in the history of civilization…then your living in a dream world if you ignore their grievances.

In the countries with laws, within a democracy, the end result is all those “pissed off women“, with justified good reason, have turned to the laws, made by men, by the way, which protect all people, in unjust situations.

The women have now applied the law(s) while forcing all those clever shits that run away from their social responsibilities to be responsible.

You can be glad that only a small percent of the women actually enact those laws but all women will naturally support the efforts of other women who take their cases of unjust male behaviour to the courts and beyond.

The statistics and facts are there and they are for real and it is not just female whining and complaining on the women's part.
After falling on deaf ears for centuries the tables have finally turned and men are now being held responsible
for their irresponsible actions.

If you doubt it you can simply start searching for information on the internet and you will learn and understand the situation is at the point where women's concerns cant be ignored anymore.

In this case, in the present conditions of the world, your penis is all the more of a liability than ever before in the history of civilization.

Again…that is not you or may not be you…but your buddy or the guy you know at work or all too many men who sustain the ongoing questionable male behaviour that the laws of a democratic society will not tolerate.

You want another example of how the tables have turned against us “not” because of our weakness but because of all too many men's aggressive behaviour and often enough their outright brutality towards women.

Men beat women and abuse them in several ways, mentally and physically “far more so” than women perpetrate the same behaviour.

“oh come on” you say “how often does that happen” and “maybe she deserved to be hit or beaten” or “maybe she is a bitch and the man is fed up with her and her conduct…what about her conduct????

Wrong attitude!!!!… And that thinking is all part of why the modern western women is capitalizing on their legal right to confront the all too common male attitude concerning male aggression perpetrated against women

Statistically we know women also participate in and perpetrate abuse, in many forms, but far less…historically!

That is changing now because they can if they feel inclined to do so, more than ever before and they do in part because they have the laws behind them…twisted as the laws in their favor may be.
Those women that do perpetrate abuse and
aggression commonly come with the attitude that women can do it because men “do it to us” and although that is not their objective when it does escalate to such a level they seldom if ever feel any guilt about their actions.
They will commonly have a good number of self serving reasons as to why their behaviour is least in their minds…just like men…surprise, surprise!

But this is not about the abuses perpetrated by women, this is a revealing wake up lesson about what men have done to women in the past and at present and seemingly forever in the minds of women.

Again..not all men …very few in fact, percentage wise, but enough and often enough that women are now fighting least in their minds they are fighting back and they use the law and they use attitude to enforce their beliefs.

Historically, rape and physical abuse of women by men has happened so often and so much it should be no surprise to any educated man or informed man as to why the laws have turned in favour of women in the western countries and the court
systems…in the democracies with laws that are enforced and upheld..for all citizens..women included.

Yes there are all too many cases of women abusing their lawful rights and manipulating the system in their favour but they pale in comparison to how men have traditionally abused their lawful privileges perpetrated against women.

Unfortunately some men get caught up in the cross fire of vengeance and retribution.

If you want to be a: “yeah but” , “yeah but” …type of man while arguing that women can also be nasty and abusive then you are not ready to accept the facts that the overwhelming majority of women who are “not”
nasty or abusive or aggressive are simply exercising their rights to protect their own interests when those rights and interests are being abused or manipulated or threatened by men.

In the affluent societies and or democratic cultures more and more women are standing up to the traditional male character that offends and confronts women's senses in many respects .
All too many men are still acting out and perpetrating
that “manly” male behaviour and they are damned sure not going to let any women tell them how they should behave…right????

Even if it does piss off women all the more because part of their manly behaviour is to ignore such confrontational, so called “bitches” who do not suit their manly male agenda.

But now…the modern women is not going to be ignored any longer and the same laws that men made and men enforce, “for everyone“, are now being exercised by women..even if the laws are manipulated and lopsided in some cases.

Well, the truth be told women have been pointing out our abuses and unjust behaviour and complaining about the obvious for all too long concerning the long list of male behavior that is offensive to women plus obtrusive and aggressive and
or abusive and now they have the law on their side and they are exercising those laws.

I am mainly talking about the laws concerning divorce, rape, physical abuse, mental abuse, no child support and a number of other injustices suffered by all too many women perpetrated by all to many men who, as I stated in in my other recent
submission, have “fucked it up” for all the good guys.

The overall result is women in general have been emboldened to stand up to those men who believe it is their manly right to dominate women and control them as they see fit.

You can blame your male buddies for the tables been turned on men ( good men included ) and next time you are listening to a friend or another man talk about women with that common “male egotistical attitude” that is so common
and redundant in most men to the point of being disturbing you may come to realise your good buddy is , in part, the underlying reason for the prevailing attitude of the western women.

If you analyse how all too many men are just the “type of man” that any women would “love to hate” you start to get a sense of where women are coming from and their attitude is as follows:

“if you men are going to keep on acting like the moronic, brutish, half jacked off horny dogs that we women commonly have to tolerate then we are going to come right back at you with attitude because this is the year 2010 buddy!, not
2000 BC or 12th century Europe and we “will” exercise our rights and voice our opinions whether you like it or not..because we can and we will.

Live with it?

Not a pretty turn of events, is it guys, and the future looks sort of bleak and I am not saying what I am saying in defense of those seemingly bitchy, nasty women but the world is evolving and this is part of the evolution and it is not comfortable
for us men having to accommodate women's grievances and displeasures concerning the way men traditionally behave towards women in general.

In part the gist of this subject matter on the stickman site is debating about why western women are acting the way that they are, resulting in so many men in search of a “good women” and I am trying to point out what I feel
is the real core issue as to why the so called western woman is treating men the way that they do and the question asking: “where is this attitude coming from and why ???.

It is because they can and they are enjoying it because they recognise that all too many men are shitheads and all too many men have screwed over all too many women in a number of ways throughout history and continue to do so at present.
The modern women enjoys being able to turn the table on those that deserve to have the table turned on them ( in their minds anyhow )…even if many good guys get caught up in the revenge and retribution and the cross fire of their anger.

It is human nature and they are somewhat free to practice what men have done for centuries and get away with it…that being : treating the opposite sex with indifference and apathy when they feel inclined to do so.

You may disagree and I know there will be a flurry of debate disagreeing with what I have said by those stubborn men that “just don't get it’ ..those guys that don’t like to have a seemingly important part of their
manhood attacked or criticized, especially if it is based on the grievances and complaints of silly women.

At present we are suffering for our past and or ongoing transgressions and our male nature.

Our male nature that was suitable for us, in many respects, during days gone by when our behaviour was simply accepted as the nature of the way things were in days gone by.
Naturally men are reluctant to change their male ways concerning
the modern women and her demands…the demands that she is slowly gaining by way of the laws that us men formulated and enforce.

If you think that is our weakness , in part, or that we have given too much to women and we have been to generous with them, as men , from a man’s point of view, then that is another point to be considered but I still believe the current
environment that we now suffer is from men's transgressions…or other men's transgressions.

The modern women is now armed with the law and education and money and supported by the same societies and legal systems that men have built, on her behalf in many respects.
A legal system paradoxically built by men far more so than what
women have ever built or contributed to the laws developed in world wide societies.

She is now utilizing what men have provided for her by way of laws.

She is exercising her right to protect her well being and we see she is angry but we still want to ignore her and her silly female grievances..or so we think.

What to do ??? Do what to????

I think they want an apology…they all want an apology …but they will never get that apology in any meaningful way from all the men in the world, in part because most men have not or feel they have not done anything to harm them.
for what you say, is the question in part

Most men believe or understand that we have protected women and nurtured them and afforded them all the wonderful inventions and all beneficial creativity that comes from the mind of man making women's lives all the better and more luxuriant.

this is true but it does not undo the harm we have inflicted upon them and continue to do so that they remember so well.

They are a sensitive lot in many respects with long reaching memories.

Just like the political party that strives to achieve many positive landmarks during its administration the public seemingly never recognises all the good that a political party created because, during their tenure, the politicians also perpetrated
some atrocities as well and then, all the good deeds done are soon forgotten and the public dwells on the negatives…never ever forgetting the negative events that occurred.

Maybe the mindset of the modern western women is similar to that and they can not forgive us for our infidelities, our transgressions, our insensitivities, our aggressive behaviour, our domineering ways and our self serving male attitudes…truth
be told.

Not all men of course but enough men to piss off enough women who have taken it upon themselves to be the revolutionaries and stand up and confront what they feel are injustices that are long over due to be corrected.

Welcome to the modern world.

Meantime we have to sleep in the beds that we made…with all too many women who are not very happy with the conduct of the occupants with whom they share the bed.

That is in part how I have come to analyse the current situation amongst men and women…in the so called west, at least.

The end result for many men is they simply decide that they do not want confrontation from any women so they decide that there has to be a better place or better women out there, unlike the modern western women.

But Korski is correct when he points out that the Asian women can be just as much of a challenge, along with some other added ways also, and he points out correctly that the Asian women, when removed from the uncompromising social circumstances
of her own country can easily developed into the Asian version of the so called “western women“.

Which is worse? …a angry, bitter Asian woman or a angry, bitter western women?????

I am just saying the underlying reasons are more about the development of laws or the lack of law enforcement verses laws actually being “enforced” in many countries that allow women to stand up to any injustices perpetrated
by men against women …not so much about perceived weaknesses in the western male.

Now we just have to try to understand why some women ( western women maybe more so ???) Are so bitchy and is it their nature or is it the circumstances and or the environment they live in that turns them against men and their “anti
man” attitudes that go with it.

More food for thought.

Stickman's thoughts:

Pressed for time so sorry, no comments.

nana plaza