Green Star Readers' Submissions April 27th, 2010

Farang Men / Thai Women — A Reality Check

The topic of Thai women and farang men is probably the most discussed—and misunderstood—topic amongst your readership. For the most part, the vast majority of your authors are still pretty clueless about Thai women and what makes them tick.
Hence, the problems that western men have with Thai women will continue until they truly understand the dynamics at play. And as always, I’m here to help. Or more specifically, provide a reality check. It’s easy to see how farangs
can get such a distorted view of Thai women. They only know Thai women in the most superficial sense, or from where they have the easiest access. Which is to say the bar scene. They get fawned over by Thai women every bar they go to and go
back and tell their friends that “Thai women love us!” Well, Thai bargirls love farangs. Or rather, they love how you’re stupid with your money.

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This is going to be a submission containing lists. Everybody loves lists. Because it cuts to the heart of the matter and provides specific info in easy-to-read, bullet format. The first list is going to be a list of the characteristics I see of the vast
majority of Thai women who are with farangs, in no particular order. So without further to do, this is the first list:

List #1: Typical Thai women with farangs in Thailand

  1. From the impoverished areas of the northeast.

    • Poor with little to no prospects.

      • Below average level of education.

        • Single mothers.

          • Have had their heart’s broken by a Thai guy.

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            • Unattractive, or at least below average in appearance.

              Nearly every Thai women with farangs possess one or more, if not all, of these traits. There are always exceptions, but honestly, this list is pretty spot on. Because even if your Thai gal doesn’t possess traits 1 through 5, most likely, she’ll be number 6. This last one, the unattractive trait (by Thai standards), is particularly important as I’ll discuss later. But there are reasons why this is so, which is what we’ll cover by the completion of this submission.

              Now this is where the farang logic perplexes me. Firstly, farang guys will say that Thai women are only about money, that’s all these women care about. Yet, as farangs are considered to be wealthier than the average Thai guy, why do only the most undesirable of Thai women gravitate towards farangs? Why wouldn’t the best and brightest be lining up to hook up with a farang, any farang, if that is all that mattered to Thai women? In fact, we have the exact opposite most of the time. Truly attractive Thai women who could have most any guy will almost never choose a farang guy. Hmmm, why is that? Let’s move on.

              Many of your readers / writers, or these who desire a long term relationship, are in pursuit of these so-called “good” Thai girls, or “normal” Thai girls. What does that mean, exactly? A “good” Thai girl, or good person in general, is so subjective that I won’t even go there. But I can talk about what a “normal” Thai girl is. A “normal” Thai girl is simply the vast majority. Not good or bad. Not right or wrong. We can say that most “normal” men are straight. But does that mean that gay men are not “normal?” Not in a sense of whether it’s right or wrong, but simply because the majority—or the norm—is not gay. So here’s List 2, what constitutes normal Thai women in Thailand.

              List #2: Normal Thai girls in Thailand

              1. Doesn’t speak English, or prefers to speak Thai even when she can speak some English.

                • Doesn’t normally read Stickman, ThaiWheezer, or any other English websites.

                  • Doesn’t work in bars.

                    • Doesn’t date or marry non-Thais.

                      • Doesn’t give farangs much thought in any given day.

                        • Hasn’t traveled much overseas.

                          • Would prefer to marry and have a family with a good Thai man.

              Now you’re probably thinking that there are tons of Thai women looking for farang mates….and you’d be right. But they’re either not normal, or most likely, have one or more traits from list #1. What does a normal white woman in America seek? A white man, of course. So what would you say about a white woman who prefers black men? If you’re white, you’ll probably say she’s deviant. I don’t think it’s wrong, but it just simply isn’t the norm. Just like Thai women who prefer farangs. There’s a few out there and if they don’t fit the profile of List #1, they most likely grew up overseas and/or are deviant. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s just not normal. It isn’t normal in Thailand, just like interracial dating is still not completely normal in the states.

              So what is important to a Thai woman, when seeking a mate? Well it could be a number of things, like sense of humor, status in society, income, looks, age, compatibility, integrity, etc. But the single most important thing for a Thai woman (a “normal” one that is), based on my intense observation and years of studying this topic, is (drum roll)…COMMUNICATION! Well this probably comes as a shock to most farangs, thinking that Thai women are all about money and family and fun and face (fill in the blank with your wrong perception). A normal Thai girl who seeks a normal relationship really wants someone she can communicate with. Someone to share her dreams and aspirations, and to laugh with, and to mourn with, and to consult with, and so on. Someone who can hold his own around her friends and family when they’re conversing. It also goes to the compatibility and shared culture aspects, which are also important things to most normal Thai women. The key here is that the communication has to be in Thai. As I’ve mentioned in List #2, Thai women don’t want to deal with English (or French, or German, or Japanese, or whatever). At least not on an intimate, day-to-day level. It’s freakin hard work! Hell, how many American women do you know that are bi-lingual? Not many, if you don’t include the Mexican and Asian Americans. So why should Thai women have to deal with this burden? Short answer is they don’t! And what sort of women would forego the most important aspect of her being, that which makes her who she is, to be with a man who doesn’t speak Thai? More on that later.

              So what sort of men do Thai women prefer? Well, I’ve got another list for you. And this time, it’s not in random order. It’s in order of priority. In other words, most Thai women would prefer guy #1, if not available, then guy #2, and then #3, and so on. So without further to do, here is List #3 in order of Thai women preference:

              List #3: Normal Thai women preference in men, in priority sequence

              1. A good Thai man with good prospects.

                • A good Thai man with some prospects.

                  • A good Thai man with little to no prospects.

                    • Foreigner group I (high status Asian, i.e., Japanese, Korean, Singaporean)

                      • Foreigner group II (farang)

                        • The lowest class of Thai men, no prospects

                          • Foreigner group III (all others)

              There are tons of generalizations in this list, but I simply can’t get into more detail, lest the list would be too large and useless. For instance, I don’t go into age, income (amongst foreigners, as they’re all generally assumed to be wealthy), honesty, personality, physical appearance, and the various other categories. Foreigner groups I and II are almost interchangeable, although I’m told that being with, say, a Singaporean guy carries less stigma than a farang guy. But anyways, I’m just trying to make a point. Thai women, by and large, prefer men she can communicate with. So Thai guys have a huge advantage, beyond the comprehension of most farangs. Of course, a normal Thai gal would prefer a guy who she can trust, good sense of humor, good control of his emotions, smart, and so on. We’re assuming all that. But for the purpose of this list, we’re looking mostly at ethnicity. But I’ll say this: if a farang (or Japanese, or Korean) can speak fluent Thai, he’ll leap right up there on the list. So I’m saying “Thai man” under the assumption that the non-Thais can’t speak Thai very well. Communication is simply that important. Think about it. When a Thai gal fantasizes about her dream guy, taking their romantic walk on the beach in some paradise, the sun is setting, the mood is perfect, and they engage in…..gibberish? That’s what she’d have with a farang guy. The Thai gal with her embarrassing bargirl English, and her farang with his equally pathetic Thai.

              Thai women are similar to western women in many ways, including their belief in true love. I can’t believe how many farangs have reached their conclusion that Thai women can’t love. Total BS. Thai women do love and do so passionately. Thais do have their own opinions of the ideal mate, attractiveness, etc. It’s built on the same foundation as the west, but yet, it’s totally Thai. I’ve discussed this before in a previous piece, but Thai women develop their ideal of a dream guy through TV shows, magazines, music videos, commercials, primary school, and so on. All Thai, of course. You watch some of these soaps and even the farang-looking Thai guys (the luek kreungs, or half-breeds) all share one thing in common, 100% of the time—they all speak fluent Thai. That makes them Thai. But farangs have been conditioned to believe what they’ve grown up believing through the western media. For example, the western concept of an attractive man. You need to get that out of your head. Because Thais generally do not subscribe to that sort of thinking. I’ve been told more than once by Thai girls that a tall, skinny, pale, spectacled, Chinese-looking guy is the ultimate. Go figure. It’s not just the look, but what the look implies. This guy must be a faithful, loyal, hard-working, from a good family, successful, emotionally stable, and an ideal family man.

              So to the question: What sort of women would forego the most important aspect of her being, that which makes her who she is, to be with a man who doesn’t speak her language? I think I’ve answered that. If she’s getting too old, or is too unattractive to find a good Thai man, or is in severe financial straits, then the farang would be a viable alternative. Farangs are definitely not her first choice. Unless he speaks Thai. It baffles me to hear farangs seeking a Thai girl who speaks English. WTF? That’s not a normal Thai girl. And frankly, I can’t stand it when a Thai girl tries to speak English. They suck at it. Well, perhaps it’s because I’m fluent in English and can spot the lame, bargirl English from a mile away. But it’s also because I understand Thai and when a Thai girl speaks Thai, it’s so much more pleasing and proper and polite to hear, or…dare I say, so much more civilized! It’s a shame that farangs don’t get the opportunity to appreciate this important aspect of Thai women—her freakin communication skills! And it’s because you can’t speak Thai. If you don’t have the aptitude or desire to pick up Thai, it seems you’d be much better off with a farang gal, wouldn’t you? Or even a Filipina? This is another thing that I find so bizarre about farang guys. You’re constantly whining about you’re inability to have an insightful conversation with your Thai gal, yet, you’re in Thailand and don’t make an effort to learn the local language. It’s really your own freakin fault, you bonehead!

              Of course, if your intent is to bring her back to the west to be the perfect mail-order bride, then perhaps the onus is on her to learn English, or whatever language. I’ve always found this to be intriguing—that is, to take a perfectly normal, healthy, and wonderfully traditional Thai girl and try to westernize her. Why in God’s name would you want to do that? Well there’s enough written about the west and feminism and gender roles and all that, so I won’t add much here. I just love the Thai women’s traditional attitude towards family, children, husband, etc. (assuming she’s in a loving relationship). A good husband, by the way, is pretty high up on her priority list, usually same as or above her own family. Please note the terms “good husband.” That doesn’t seem to be the case with most farang male/Thai female relationships.

              So this somewhat explains the sort of Thai women that most farangs manage to end up with. A good looking, even lower middle class Thai girl who doesn’t have any kids, is almost always going to prefer a Thai guy. But if she’s a single mother (or older) with little to no financial prospects, she’s going to have a difficult time finding a good Thai man. Especially if she’s not particularly attractive, by Thai standards. The fortunate thing for farangs (and other foreigners) is that there’s quite a few of these impoverished gals running around who aren’t attractive enough to land a good Thai man. And they’ve come to realize that no matter how butt-ugly Thai society sees them, there’s bound to be a farang who finds them attractive. So it’s still a target-rich environment. Do you know what a Thai woman means when she says “Thai men no good?” It actually means “Thai men no find me attractive and I’m dirt poor. So…Thai men no good!”

              Some other random thoughts: Mr. Stick, you’ve had some Thai gals write in and to be honest, they’re doing your readership a disservice. Because they are simply not normal Thai women. One of your Green Star submissions was a gal named JTG. Well, she made some good points but she left out the most crucial—the communication aspect! Because most farangs in Thailand don’t speak much Thai and most normal Thai women don’t speak much English. How in God’s name can you have a meaningful relationship when you can’t communicate? If it’s the superficial kind, where she provides you the sex and companionship and you provide the finances, then fine. But that’s all you’ve got. Don’t be surprised if she hungers for a normal relationship, that with which only a Thai guy can provide.

              Lastly, let’s give the much maligned Thai guys a fair assessment. After all, they seem to have this rep amongst the farang community, yet, still manage to get all the hot Thai babes (gay farang guys like them as well, although I’m not real knowledgeable of that scene). Well I know quite a few Thai guys. Great guys. Well meaning, honest, hard-working, etc. I can honestly say that they’re not much different than the average guy of any nationality. They understand Thai women much better than any farang. And like any nationality, there are good Thai guys and there are bad. But you have to consider the circumstances. For example, the child support issue. I know that non-payment of child support is a big problem in the US. They even have a name for such guys, Deadbeat Dads. The US government has had to create draconian laws to get farang guys to pay child support. It’s about as serious as not paying your taxes nowadays, a freakin felony in some states. Yet, many farang guys STILL refuse to pay child support in the appropriate amounts and sometimes none at all. So if you consider Thailand, where no such strict enforcement is available, then of course there will be Deadbeat Dads in Thailand. There’s quite a few farang guys who have abandoned their Thai wives and half-breeds. And the other issue of fidelity—heck, not much to explain here. Farang guys in Thailand are as likely, if not more, to cheat on their spouse as any Thai guy, due simply to the availability. Enough said.

              So what’s the point of all this? How is this going to help farang guys avoid the pitfalls of dubious relationships with Thai women? The farang guy just needs to temper his expectations. Let’s face it, you are not the normal Thai girl’s dream guy. Not by a long shot. However, if she possesses the traits from List #1, you can certainly be her savior. That’s not the same thing as being her dream guy. In a lot of cases, Thai women who go after farang guys have pretty much given up on love. They’ve gotten practical. Pragmatic. They’re in it for the payoff. Not necessarily to rip off a farang. Sometimes, just for financial security, for her and her family. She sees that as noble. A personal sacrifice. So she’ll go out with you, sleep with you, marry you…heck, she might even like you. But love? Doesn’t happen that often with farang guys. The only truly successful farang/Thai relationships I’ve seen involved great communication. Meaning, either he speaks Thai fluently, or she speaks his language fluently. It seems that it would be easier for said couples living in Thailand if the guy were to learn Thai. Heck, you’re around it all the time. For a Thai gal to learn English when she’s listening to Thai all day long every single day is just not realistic. The best she can hope for is that pathetic bargirl English. That’s why as a group, the most proficient English-speakers are probably the bargirls. It’s their job.

              So farangs are still dating the wrong Thai women because of their own ineptness, getting burned, and then painting all Thai women as dishonest, immature, greedy, childish, etc. Well obviously, these traits are confined mostly to Thai women who date farangs. Normal Thai women aren’t like that. Not to say every Thai/Thai relationship is perfect, but Thai/Thai seems to be a better pairing than even farang/farang. Farang/Thai? Not even close. I’m sure there are farangs in Thailand who don’t speak Thai nor care to and insists that their marriage or relationship with a Thai girl is great. I don’t believe that for a second. According to him maybe. It probably sucks for her. If you want to improve your chances with a normal Thai girl, you need to live here, learn the language, have some Thai male friends, and get it out of your head that you’re every Thai women’s desire. Open your eyes and look around. You’re not.


              Stickman's thoughts:

              For any readers who did not work it out, Jayson is a Thai guy (who has written a few submission in the past).

              It's so refreshing to read something that cuts through the bullshit. I don't doubt that this submission will bother / upset a good number of readers and I will agree that there are a few generalisations but I have to say I agree with 90% of what Jayson says.

              There is perhaps one thing that Jayson did not touch on, and as a Thai guy he might not realise this. I think there are plenty of Westerners married to Thai women and living in Thailand (this part is important) who do not actually seek a perfect marriage. It is, in some ways, "convenient" for them to be married to a Thai woman while working in Thailand and they perhaps do not treat their wife as well as they would a Western woman (or perhaps as they did a previous wife(s)).

              As Jayson has not left an email, you'll just have to respond with a submission of your own on this issue!

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