Stickman Readers' Submissions February 3rd, 2010

Cancer Detected in the LOS

In Stickman’s 12/20/09 weekly, there was an email from a reader regarding “underaged” girls working the bars in Thailand. This is not a new topic, but the language used in that post was such that I think it warrants comment. For purposes of “self-containment,” I have pasted the post below:


He Clinic Bangkok

The icky stuff is still popular with some.

I remember being in a Soi Cowboy bar last year when the mamasan proudly presented a girl to me and told me she was only 17. No thanks! I couldn't believe she would advertise the fact and I am sure there are many other underage girls working. How
can you tell their ages when so many are so petite? I've got a friend who owns a bar on soi 6 in Pattaya and he has a 16 year old working there. He said he wasn't too keen on it but his Thai wife insisted. Apparently this girl was
having so much fun in her Isaan hometown that her parents told her to go to Pattaya and get paid for it if she wanted to be a slut! How's that for family values and morality? The police were being a pain in the ass in soi 6 the last few
days I was there and my friend told the girl to go out the back and make herself scarce where she was pulling more guys from soi 6/1 than the other girls were out front. Not for me.


CBD bangkok

The writer referred to the subject as “icky stuff.” <In the interests of getting it right, *I* title the emails from readers and it was me who described it as "icky" – this word referring to the whole concept of underage sexStick> Then he proceeded to relate his story and in so cited a 17 year old and a 16 year old bargirl. And readers, my whole article was sparked by that one word, “icky,” and the tragedy it represents.

Firstly, characterizing such situations as “icky” smacks very much of a grade school/junior-high mentality, much like “eew,” “eeew gross,” “yuk,” and the ever popular “eeeeeeew-yucky-poo.” But it also indicates and emotional reaction (distaste or repugnance) to the situation, and further, this reaction is based on a moral judgment. Inasmuch, he goes further than addressing and assessing the subject as merely a point of manmade law (hereafter referred to as “law.”). (I mean, when was the last time you heard of a speeder being referred to as “gross”?!)

What I actually think when I read something like this is that the writer:

1. Has thrown reason and logic to the wind in favor of some unknown objective;

wonderland clinic

2. Is vying for PC poster boy;

3. Is posturing to gain some sense of superiority;

4. To steal from Shakespeare, he “doth protest too much”;

5. Has actually bought into the FemNazi vitriol.

Just what does “underage” mean these days? Underage is, firstly, a point of law. Sexual relations with someone younger than 18 years old for PAY in Thailand is against the law, as I understand it. (Speeding is also against the law, by the way.) But keep in mind that laws must take into account more factors than simply the laws of nature (hereafter referred to as “nature”), among which are societal mores, religious beliefs, financial viability and legal age of accountability (age of majority). And the last two relate to raising children. (Children are often a byproduct of sex, but especially with younger women, as you will learn shortly.)

So it’s safe to conclude that law and nature are two different things, and understandably, law is not always in accordance with nature, and even laws regarding “legal age/age of consent” vary greatly from country to country, and in the US, even state to state.

But what does Mother Nature have to say about these “icky-zone” females (not MY definition, but that of our poster, Mr. Icky)? You know, she is probably shaking her head in amazement that some of society is forsaking 30% of the most effective reproductive years of the human female’s life. That is, some societies are trying to cull the 15-17 year olds from the most effective breeding stock (15-24 years olds).

Preposterous, you say? Hardly. Those figures are just points of fact. In a nutshell, the majority of females are physically mature by their 15th birthday. By this, I mean full Tanner Stage 5, with adult breast, pubic hair and fully functioning baby-making parts. Even all but the absolute latest of bloomers are fully mature by 16.

Furthermore, teens from 15-17 are, as a group, fertile-Myrtles. Baby-making machines. They have among the highest CoC (chance of conception) rates. They are among the group with the highest chances of a healthy delivery (15-24 YOs). For instance, even mothers in the 25-30 year old age group statistically have a more than 10% greater chance of having a down’s child than do the 15-24 year olds. So it seems that, regardless of the law, Mother Nature didn’t intend for the human female to remain sexless or be thought of as a child until 18 years of age. They are fully functioning women much earlier, at least in the physical sense. (Can you Icky-ites out there follow along with this stuff?)

Now, I can already hear the FemNazis and PCs bellowing. To those I say, if you cry because that’s the way it is, I will defer to Mother Nature… take it up with her. I had nothing to do with the design specifications of the human female, though I sure wish I had the patent on it. If you bemoan the fact that someone is even saying this, I must condemn you for your censorship. If you beg to point out that there is more than nature at work here, to that I have already conceded. If you doubt the veracity of my statements, research it for yourself. And you can start here. If you do decide to set out on your own in the internet jungle, I will warn you against relying on the NOW (National Organization of Women) or FemNazi sites, or those sites crusading to lower teen pregnancy, least you want egg on your face or feces in your beer. Stick to medical and university sites that report factually, without agenda.

For reference, look at the following if you wish:


“./.and reached full maturational stage at mean age (year) 14.7 +/- 1.3 and 14.4 +/- 1.4 respectively. The mean age, height and weight at which the intermediate stages are reached were given. Cumulative proportion of girls that have attained menarche at each pubertal stage were derived. Median age of menarche calculated by status quo method was 13.6 years.”

(From NIH; a study (National Institute of Health, US government))


The first rules occur at 12.9 years (range between 10.8 and 14.2 years).

Pubic hair adult (P5) is installed at an average of 14 years (range between 11.6 and 16.4 years).

The complete development of breasts (S5) is reached at 14 years on average (range between 11.6 and 16.4 years.

For most children and adolescents, ie 95% of individuals, the stages of puberty occurs between the data changes for each event.

From, and Online Healthcare website.


Table 2. SMR Female Breast Stages: Mean chronologic age (CA) and bone age (BA) in females (in years)

I. No development
II. Bud 10.9 (8.5-13.3) 10.5
III. Breast tissue beyond areola 12.2 12.0
IV. Secondary mound 13.2 13.5
V. Adult 14.0 15.0
Peak height velocity 12.2 (10.2-14.2) 12.5
Menarche 12.7 (10.5-15.5)

From University of


“Tanner stage five is the final stage of puberty, and usually occurs when a girl is about fourteen-and-a-half years of age.

“The swelling of your areola will disappear as the rest of your breast takes on a fully adult-like appearance. Your pubic hair should spread to your inner thigh and, by the end of the stage, you should have fully developed genitalia.

“By around 16 years of age, your growth rate should stop, by which time you should have reached physical maturity.”

From, an educational site for adolescent girls.


“For mothers between 15 and 19, age in itself is not a risk factor, but additional risks may be associated with socioeconomic factors.”

(Makinson C (1985). "The health consequences of teenage fertility". Fam Plann Perspect 17 (3))


So, Neander, you might ask, why all this talk of Mother Nature and female maturity and reproduction? Well, folks, one of the cornerstones of Mother Nature’s duty is to propagate the species, and she has chosen her method. Mature females of 15-17 are as a group, by Nature, highly attractive because in accordance with Nature, they are highly effective at reproduction. And now the core point: by Nature’s plan, males are necessarily attracted to, among other mature age groups, these 15-17 year old mature females. It is NOT sick, or gross, and for your benefit, Mr. Icky, it is not icky, either. Males who find young, mature females sexually attractive are responding in a natural way. That is the normal male hardwiring. And the men eyeing the 16 year old in poster Icky’s story are not child molesters and deviants. (They might be “dirty old men,” but that is another story.) And they are CERTAINLY NOTHING like the poor bastard out there trying to find some 8-year-old little girl to bone. (Eight-year-old; you know, Mr. Icky, the ones that basically look like a little boy without the stem!) That “poor bastard” is in need of some serious help, because his wiring is all messed up, and in total discord with Nature’s plan. We don’t even have to go further with that.

Now back to our poster, he makes it clear that having sex with someone younger than 18 is not for him. Well, that is fine, if he had stopped there. But he didn’t. By his description, he has not-so-tacitly placed all who acknowledge the natural attraction of a 17 YO into the “eeew” and “icky” column. By his account, there must be some magical switch on females that miraculously flips on their 18th birthday to make sexual relations with them go from morally icky to acceptable. I would like to ask him, does he believe that women wake up on the morning of their 18th and look different? Do they smell different? And, pray tell, is that button designed to keep their sex drive in check until they reach this magical age? (If so, it just ain’t working!)

Of course, that talk of buttons and different smells and looks on the 18th birthday is foolish. Just about as foolish as calling sex with a mature female less than that arbitrary age of 18 “icky,” without further qualification. Just think about it .. even on the face of it, such statements are foolish and childish. Seventeen and 23:00 hours: icky-poo. But 18yo and :05 hours … good to go!! Perhaps if Mr. Icky’s qualifying “ages of ick” were even remotely close to being relevant by the measure of Nature, he might at least have some credibility. As it stands, he has none. But how did Mr. Icky come to think like this? Why is his mind unable to differentiate between biological adulthood and social adulthood? That is where the real crux of the issue lies.

We have already established that Mr. Icky is speaking to this subject moralistically vs. a point of law. But would his morals shift if he were say, in the US, where the age of consent in predominately 16? Or perhaps Europe, where the average age of consent looks to be about 15 (calculated by quick scroll-through of Wikipedia)? If he thought about all of this, would he have reconsidered his position and gone running back to Pattaya to find that horny 16 YO? I must submit to you, the answer to all of these is an absolute NO. Then perhaps, you pose, is he some self-appointed guardian of his perception of righteousness and has he ordained the age of icklessness to be 18 regardless of law or nature? Hell, perhaps our hero stands ready to organize some military crusade against Mexico, because there, the age of consent is as low as 12!! Well folks, neither of these are part of our Mr. Icky, either. He is not an independent thinker nor is he a crusader, outside of his own mind’s eye.

It sounds that I am being hard on our Mr. Icky, but it really isn’t personal. He is not alone. He is an archetype. He represents society’s sheep. He has been conditioned by the almost endless litany of “new-world doctrine” which is nothing less than a well planned and effectively orchestrated assimilation program. Mr. Icky is now but a pawn, mindlessly parroting what sounds like the “flavor of the day.” He is in a game he really does not understand, but it sounds good to him to be what he considers “progressive.” He has that warm, fuzzy feeling about himself, and it probably serves him well in the short run. He rudderlessly goes about with the tides and currents of political correctness, never realizing the damage he can do just by adding to the mass of the unthinking. Sadly, he does this only because he wants to be a part .. Accepted and acknowledged. Little does he know he is just fodder for a cause.

Now Neander, you say, there cannot be any such group orchestrating any such assimilation program. That just cannot happen in a modern, educated society. But before you so casually dismiss such a contention, know that there are some 6,000,000 Jews who in death stand as proof that such is indeed possible. The group which already has poor Mr. Icky’s balls in a death-grip is, coincidently enough, sometimes referred to as the FemNazis. They are known by other names, too, but you all know who I mean. It is predominately by their efforts that the western world is so cripplingly mired in “political correctness,” especially the US. (I am from the US, and so I cannot speak directly about what Aussies, Kiwis and Europeans, etc., are experiencing, but in reading on the subject and talking to other expats here in Thailand, it seems that much the same is going on in those other “western” countries, though not to the degree that it is in the US.)

The hand of the FemNazi has pervaded the very fabric of US society. No longer do they need to rely on random osmosis or mere chance (such as the media or a sympathetic entertainment industry) to deliver THE LESSON. It is now overt and increasingly NOT optional. And it is formalized. For those entering college, it is highly and ever-increasingly likely that they will be required to undergo such training. This is not the old indoctrination that we oldsters remember where they took a day and told us how college life was to be and how to register for classes. This is a formalized “political correctness” program. They want more than to simply inform you of rules or the law. They want to tell you how and what to think.

For those working for the US government, as did I, they are in for it by the ton. Lectures, briefings, emails, letters, notes with your T&A (down boys … Time and Attendance Statement), and even formalized, multi-day training. During the last 15 years of my career, it was CONSTANT. Often they would tack words like “equal” onto the titles of the classes, but in all my years, I never heard a word about the protection, consideration or concern for the white male. We were almost without fail, the villains. (Ironically, in the classes, blacks typically only got cursory coverage. Then the black males were added back in with us villains and told how they, too, were vile and evil. It always seemed to me like the programs that got their start to help minorities, specifically blacks, got hijacked by the “women’s movement.” I wonder if ole Jessie Jackson realizes that, yet?!) I went into management the last years of my career to maximize my “high-three,” thusly raising my pension. (I hated doing that, and even then, as I was doing it I looked upon it as an act of prostitution.) Shortly after I made the move, they (governmental PCs) added onto my position description/rating documentation an additional CJE (critical job element): Implements and supports EEO and AFFIRMATIVE ACTION directives. And lest you risk a demotion or transfer, even voicing a negative opinion of such a program was a no-no. (I had to draw the line with that “supports affirmative action” part. I was lucky .. I was an old fart with huge seniority … I just ignored the CJE and took the minimum satisfactory rating.) Now how is that for a self sustaining program?!! Complete with a built-in protection plan. You do have to hand it to the FemNazis; they did the job right!

The result to this infiltration has been broad and far-reaching, but I will limit the discussion to the aspect relevant to our subject. In the US, the PCs have somehow managed to defile and pervert even the types of relationships that a very few years ago were looked upon as normal and healthy. Not so very long ago, an internet news page (from the US) featured a picture of a famous 17 YO actress (cute face, nice rack, breeder hips – but I guess that makes me a molester just for noticing, huh Mr. Icky?) kissing a 21 YO guy of some reputation. The caption read something like, “naughty, naughty, she’s jailbait.” Most of the comments to the picture and the accompanying article delivered the same message as Mr. Icky’s post. I don’t recall seeing “icky,” but I remember an “oh gross” or two, and several chastisements toward the fellow for his involvement with the UNDERAGED girl. Such responses seem to spew even from those persons hailing from venues where the age of consent is 16. For some reason, when I saw that “article,” I was rubbed the wrong way. It just didn’t sit well with me. Then it hit me. Hey, those two could have been my parents. My Dad married my Mom just after she turned 18, and he is 4 years and 3 months older than her. So I guess by this new-age, evolved mentality, my parents are “icky.” Guess that makes me double-icky. Hell, I’m even worse than that. I and my high school sweetheart became teen parents. In retrospect, I realize now that I should be thankful that the FemNazis didn’t come and round us all up, take us out, and shoot us, or perhaps gas us, one and all. See, it seems, much like Thailand, my family is the epitome of what the FemNazis hate.

This piece was not initially meant to be a diatribe against NOW or the PCs, but for some reason I just couldn’t tell the what without telling the why. NOW’s goal was logical enough: to increase the earning power of women and promote female financial independence. And logically, teen parenthood is not a recipe for success toward those goals, especially in US society. But the means to their goals have gone far too far. It seems like part of the human condition is to believe anything that is heard often enough or long enough, and especially if the pupil is young. Again, the Holocaust and the Hitler Youth stand in testament to that. And NOW has been screeching, yelling and crying for some 40 odd years, now. Resultantly, these PCs have succeeded in vilifying sex with and indeed even the acknowledgment the sexuality of young, mature females (15-17), even where and if by law the subject females are beyond the age of consent. (An irony here: to promote the dignity of women, PCs widely insistent that these young mature females be called “women.” On occasion, if backed into a corner, they will tolerate these females being called “young women.” But if sexuality becomes the topic, suddenly they are not even girls anymore, but CHILDREN! It would be laughable if but for the fact that the Mr. Ickys of this world are trailing along behind these PCs with their noses firmly clinched in butt-crack.)

Yes, the social consciousness in the US has been twisted and manipulated to the point that even my Parents fall into the category of perverts. My Dad, who has lived his life as a respected business man, civically active, father of four, and a leader in his church, has been now downgraded to a child molester. It’s hard to believe that, now in his 80’s, he is still highly respected in his community, and that those 2 reprobate parents of mine are still happily married and going strong. I mean, for all the PC’s hell-raising and blustering, you would think certainly that Mom, exposed as an “underage child” to such “abuse,” would be psychologically damaged and scarred for life, and unable to function in any lasting relationship! (By the way, my parents are the only reason I go back to visit the US. If they precede me in death, the rest of the family can come HERE if they want to see me.)

So now, you all know the what, why and how about our poor old Mr. Icky. And I don’t even know if his conditioning is reversible. But let me say, in his defense, the PCs are relentless. But they are also predominately a western phenomenon. And they have mucked up their respective countries to the point that many of we expats have settled away from the west in no small part to escape all their crap.

But in spite of my pity for Mr. Icky, I wish him (them all) to please take his sheep-like-nose-up-their-butts-mindless-parrotting-PC-self-righteous-elitist arse back to the west. We certainly don’t need his kind here. They are like a cancer. This is probably news to his ilk, but they are not the GREAT WHITE HOPE. Their perception of their intellectual and moral superiority is merely a delusion. Funny part is, if the western societies continue to decay and crumble, within 100 years, they will be praying for help from the GREAT ASIAN HOPE.

Mr. OC, you ask after reading this, are you condoning men having sex with women under the age of consent? Not at all. I think that you should abide by the law, especially in a foreign land. Lawmakers have reasons for their laws, even those that are not in accordance with nature, and even those that are difficult to understand or rationalize. And your western status (I assume, as you are reading this) does not elevate you above the law, as it seems some western tourists think. If you do not like certain laws or attitudes, then use the proper channels to try to change them. If you can’t, and are adamant enough in your opposition, move! But the point I hope I have made is that, to deny the attraction of the mature female, even if they are under the age consent, and to condemn that natural attraction as a deviancy in nature, is tantamount to playing GOD. Through the fog that is Mr. Icky’s mind, that is what he did, however unintentionally, but frighteningly, that is the method of the FemNazi. Beware!!

Interesting. Didn’t ‘Dolph consider himself some kinda deity, too?

So for my fellow expats and visitors in Thailand, I reiterate, obey the law. To not do so could be costly. If you knowingly break the law, you deserve what you get. But here, there is no reason to break the subject age-limit laws; our women are gorgeous and fresh well after 18. Even my 35 year old wife (Thai, of course) looks no more than 25. Gotta love it.

Neander OC

Stickman's thoughts:

First of all, the use of the word "icky" was mine and not that of the reader who sent in that email. Let me explain my choice of the word. "Icky" can mean dirty, or something you do not want to touch or even be anywhere near. I think this is a fair word when dealing with what would be ILLEGAL sex in Thailand. To clarify the law in Thailand, while the age of consent in Thailand is 15, you may only have sex with a woman aged 15, 16 or 17 if you already have THE CONSENT OF HER PARENTS. If you do not have that consent then what you are doing is illegal. Then there is also the issue of women aged under 18 not being allowed to work in a bar. So, if someone was caught with a woman aged 16 or 17 whom they met in a bar in Thailand, THEY COULD BE CHARGED WITH UNDERAGE SEX. What would almost certainly follow would be their mug shot on news sites and in the newspapers in Thailand and perhaps in their own country too. That is beyond icky, is it not?!

When you argue that women aged 15, 16 or 17 may be physically ready for sex you get into an area I would prefer not to comment on. What I will say is that mentally, Thai women aged under 20 are often very child-like and not prepared for the mental and emotional aspects of a lot of sex with a lot of different men, some of whom might like to perform certain kinkier acts on or with them – whether the girl likes it or not, or even whether she consents or not.

This is not about any sort of moral superiority, it is simply about being decent.

If you are so much in favour of this sex with youngsters, how would you feel if your 15 year old daughter ended up with a large Westerner? How would you feel if that Westerner, 2 or 3 times her size, rolled her over, held her down and rammed his giant cock up her ass? And how would you feel if she started pleading with him to stop and he started pounding her harder and harder, hitting slapping her and laughing loudly, screaming at her that she likes it? How would you feel about it?

This sort of thing happens. We need to protect young Thai women who don't know how to deal with such situations and for whom such an experience could scar them mentally and physically for life.

Of course you would not be happy if this happened to your daughter.

I have always maintained that for Thai women in the trade, 18 is too young. They just don't have the emotional maturity to deal with it at that age. Some do, of course, but many do not. Making it 20 would be a lot better in my mind.

nana plaza