Readers' Submissions

More Difficult Subjects

  • Written by BKKSteve
  • November 18th, 2009
  • 13 min read


A month ago I penned the submission "BKKSW's, Good Girls For [email protected]#%!, A Primer." Finally I got around to proof-reading and sending it in and one day there it was with Stick's comments:

"""Stickman's thoughts:

That's a lot of really sound advice.

If I may make a couple of comments, I would say that MANY men coming to Thailand should not be pursuing a long-term relationship as they have perhaps unresolved issues that need to be worked out first, perhaps a divorce or two or perhaps a lack of any real success with women in their own country.

One also needs to be sure that the woman they are dating really is a genuine "good girl". More than a few women make this claim but really they are not…"""

I read these comments the first time and didn't think much of them, but after a few days thought I realized these are two very difficult subjects. I started giving them some thought. Anyone writing a submission addressing these two subjects is surely walking into a minefield. There is no way you're going to get everyone to agree with you, and there is probably no way to avoid pissing people off and receiving hate mail. The perfect writing exercise! Please know before I start my intentions are good. I simply want to share MY thoughts on these subjects and put them out there so others can compare with their own thoughts. Through these individual comparisons perhaps we can reach a more clear understanding.

SHOULD YOU PURSUE A LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP?

"I would say that MANY men coming to Thailand should not be pursuing a long-term relationship as they have perhaps unresolved issues that need to be worked out first, perhaps a divorce or two or perhaps a lack of any real success with women in their own country."

In my original submission I certainly didn't intend to imply everyone should be pursuing relationships with Good Girls. Far from it. But at the same time I wasn't thinking that many men would be emotionally damaged, or perhaps socially crippled. But after giving it some thought I'd have to agree with Stick. Many men should not be pursuing a long term relationship because of unresolved personal issues, or because they're naturally unsuitable based on their dismal history in their own country.

I can certainly understand unresolved issues. I've had more than my share. I've been told that most often a full two years are needed between your last serious relationship, and before considering your next serious relationship. For me personally I found the two year rule not nearly enough. I probably didn't fully get over my previous marriage for 5-6 years. 10 years later there are still brief moments when I think I still haven't gotten over it. Perhaps we never fully get over past relationships. Maybe we carry unresolved issues with us as a sort of 'experience set' into every new relationship. Maybe it's these experience sets that make us who we are today?

If you ask yourself what you'd like to see in your ideal mate, the next woman you fall in love with, would you list "experience with 2-3 failed marriages, several children living in different places, hard drinking, and mongering in Thailand?" Or would you more prefer someone undamaged by past relationship conflicts, someone fresh of mind and soul? There is no right answer. But we probably wouldn't want a woman with open bleeding wounds. We'd at least want someone whose scabs had turned to scars and has started living their life as normally as they'll ever live it again.

So the trick is in getting there. Arriving at "as normal" as we'll ever be again. Of course I'm assuming an individual wants to eventually be in a long term relationship and I realize this is a flawed assumption. I know more than a few people who are just fine with their most serious relationship being an overnight long time. If this makes them healthy and happy then I'm all for it.

However, if it makes the person feel lonely, drink too much, and starts to wear on their body and soul then I'd say they need some self-healing. The sooner the better. The body is only capable of so much self-abuse without doing permanent damage and/or aging terribly. How many guys do you know who look old beyond their years? Are they in happy relationships, or alone and spend a lot of time drinking in bars?

Arriving at our best new "normal" requires work and discipline, but if we're honest with ourselves it's not an intellectual exercise. It's an exercise in discipline. Do you think drinking will help get you there? Mongering? Spending time away from family and friends so you can spend time in Thailand? Again, there is no right answer, though I'd tend to think moderation is key. Perhaps 'some' drinking and 'some' mongering can assist in the self-healing process. And if we're honest with ourselves we'll know exactly when we've had enough, and when we went too far. This is where it takes discipline to pull yourself out of the flat spin you've put yourself in and take a more natural heading.

But what about those who have never done well with women in their own countries? This is a giant bag of worms. It makes me think of the movie "Hitch" with Will Smith who played a dating coach. If you look at the classifieds in the bigger cities you'll see a lot of people offering their services as dating coaches. I think this would be a great job!

I'm a firm believer in self-improvement. I think there are many things most of us can do to improve our chances of finding a great woman, and then keeping her once we find her. In the military they taught us "situational awareness" and it was vital in keeping us alive. With dating situational awareness still plays a big role, but not nearly as big as "individual awareness." Or in other words, taking a good hard look in the mirror and being honest with ourselves about what needs repairing and then exercising the discipline to effect the changes. <I am with you 110% on this – Stick> Or ask someone you trust and listen to them. There's no need to remain socially inept your entire life. It's an easy condition to remedy. You just have to want to.

IS SHE A GOOD GIRL?

"One also needs to be sure that the woman they are dating really is a genuine "good girl". More than a few women make this claim but really they are not…"

Again, if anyone would know it would have to be Stick. I liken this back to my experience as a police officer. Four years of riding patrol and dealing with the bottom 2% of society opened my eyes to what's out there and taught me to look and see the bad things where most would never notice. Years later I still carry these habits with me. I suppose it's the same with Stick. He's been involved in one form or the other with the bar scene and investigations and can easily see things the rest of us miss. He's probably more suspicious, more careful, and sees more. I know the feeling.

Still, in my original submission I offered some common sense advice which I truly believe will reveal the girls who aren't as good as they'd like us to believe. Actually I offered a lot, but it might not have been obvious so let's go through them again.

Time. The longer you take to form a relationship, and the longer you take to get serious in a relationship, the more bad girls you'll weed out. Many bad girls are more than willing to play the "long game", and successful ones will play more than a few guys at once with the end goal of monthly stipends to get her out of the bar, or for even bigger fools.. getting guys to pay for children which aren't theirs. You wouldn't believe how common it is for a bar girl to have 4-5 "fathers" paying support for the same kid.

In this day and age of "take home paternity testing" there is no excuse for EVER paying a single baht for a kid that isn't yours, yet many guys are stupid enough to do just that. These kits use hair clippings, blood samples, fingernail clippings, and the process is very discreet. You owe it to yourself and your future good girl.

I read the results of a study not long ago, that in western countries it's estimated that as many as 1/3rd of all fathers out there, are not. 1/3rd! This study was using the results of those who have sought paternity tests, and that someone has suspicion enough to seek a test must have some bearing on the numbers, but that's still a lot. Women who get pregnant have financial and personal incentives for 'choosing' the baby's father even if they are not. I personally believe that in today's modern world a paternity test should be required to have a birth certificate issued with a father's name, for public assistance, and before levying child support payments. In most western countries this is your right, and you'd be an idiot to not insist on a paternity test even in a committed relationship in good standing. With a bar girl you'd have to be insane!

Time is your best friend in weeding out those who aren't truly interested in you as a person. Your second best friend is holding off on the generosity. If you're paying the bills, paying for nice vacations, buying gifts, this is often more than enough to keep a bad girl hanging on. Be reasonable about such things. Be smart. If you're really after a good girl do you think 'buying' her is the way to go?

Wouldn't it be better if she liked you just for you? If she insists you pay for any of her personal expenses, fancy gifts, expensive vacations, there's a good chance she's not as interested in you as she is in what you can buy her. I know some guys who really don't have the self-confidence/esteem to believe a woman will stick around without lavishing them with money/gifts. Perhaps they won't, but if they won't perhaps that should be a clue to look in the self-improvement department above.

I love being generous. I've bought my wife new cars, homes, whatever she needed. But during our years of dating I didn't pay her expenses, no allowances, only reasonable vacations and outings, nothing lavish in the least. During our years of dating I was saving my money so when we did get married I could pay for the things we'd need as a couple. My wife was doing just fine on her own before I met her. She worked all but two days a month 12 hours a day, bought everything she needed herself, and was getting by living on her income. Why in the world would she need more than she already had just because she was dating a farang? She never asked for anything either, and don't think I didn't notice. If you ever bother to go back and read my early submissions you'll see I was very careful in this area, even a creep more than once. I wasn't perfect, but I knew my wife wasn't marrying me for money. I'd do it differently now, but wouldn't we all?

I'll simplify this. If you take your time with a woman in the natural course of a relationship, which most often takes years, if you aren't being overly generous, if you're honest with yourself concerning her behavior, and if you treat her like a good girl expects to be treated, chances are you'll end up with a good girl in the end. You might not start out with one, and you might go through more than a few girls before you find one who appreciates being treated like a good girl, and who appreciates you being a man, but if you give it enough time and you do things right, you will probably end up with a good girl. And the reason for this is simple.

Bad girls won't tolerate such behavior for very long. They'll grow inpatient and move on to the next target. Bar girls are predators. And of course bar girls are human and all that and they're only doing their job.. but you need to keep a bar girl and her motivations in context/perspective. A bad girl and a good girl might look the same, but they have entirely different motivations.

What other information did I give in the first submission to help you avoid a bad girl? Almost every word. A bad girl won't mind your bar girl Thai, your bar girl hygiene habits, using bar girl Thai around friend or family, she'll want to move to the relationship along to the money stages very fast, it won't seem to bother her that you were a monger, you probably found her in a tourist area, she'll expect and accept you manipulating her and checking up on her, she'll accept you being less than a man (like all the other men in her life), dumbing down your English will be accepted, she won't know Thailand's history and current events any better than you, and she'll enjoy going places bar girls normally go.. This isn't rocket science, if you follow the advice in the initial submission your chances of ending up with anything but a good girl would be slim.

Sure, I could have listed all kinds of tips and tricks for luring out the true motivation(s) of a bad girl, but I'm specifically addressing Stick's comments in relation to the original submission. If you're truly looking for a good girl, you'll find a good girl. Do you have what it takes to keep her?

Until next time..

Stickman's thoughts:

I really liked the bit you say about taking a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and then trying to improve on things that are less than ideal. I did this recently and decided that I needed to exercise more and drink less. I also decided I had to be more decisive and have a long-term plan. I fixed up some of these things and others are still a work in progress. I really think it makes be a better person and while I most certainly am not looking, it does make me more attractive to women.

And to comment on what you say at the end, some people just do NOT have what it takes. Most do, with some improvement, but some, I'm afraid to say, just do not, at least not without massive changes.