Stickman Readers' Submissions May 19th, 2009

Sin Sot Again

Hello dear Stickmanites, after reading about Brokenman, in the last couple of weeks and I was going to respond to a certain Mr. Anonymous, (as I sure many others wanted to) although many of his points are hard hitting and truthful. I’m sure most of us know about the ambiguity and duplicity of this place, we don’t need to be reminded how stupid we are for constantly falling for there machinations. I was actually taught by my parents, “If you can't say the right thing. say the kind thing”. But anyway, it all makes good reading.

After reading “My Wife’s Thoughts” a couple of days a go, I thought I would say a few things because it was very good reading and many good points, and it is quite fitting for my experience.

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First, a little about me. I’ve been reading Stickman for about 5 years, been to Thailand 20 times and came here to work, initially, and actually work and teach aviation full time here now. When I first came here I actually disliked Asian women, so I am not what you would call a sex tourist although I have frequented the occasional bar, but I treat them for what they are. After a while I grew to like or more accurately I have become enthralled by Thai women and their beauty. But when it comes to intellect, especially when they are under pressure, they have the mental capacity of a 10 year old and the ones I date or have been dating have good jobs and have a high level of education. They are what you would call “good girls” but personally I think that expression is a misdemeanor (if that is the right word).

I have come to the conclusion that anything goes in Thailand. Thais have this ability to adjust to suit the occasion, and be in complete denial when it suits. The truth is whatever is convenient at the time, and when it comes to justify their means “It's our culture!” Yeah, so are hookers, ladyboys and mai noys, get over it. You can meet 10 different women and they all will tell you they are good girls and never lie, and justify their actions by saying it's their culture. I have actually met a so called good girl, (that was her comment not mine) dressed well educated and within a day she is in my bed, and the next morning asks me for money, and get this “I len mony to fliend and she not pay me back, I need mony for lent, can you give me mony” It is actually an insult, just tell me the truth, you just F**ked me for money. She obviously thought she was a good girl because she wanted 4000 for rent.

I had a girlfrien last year and I thought I was the luckiest man in Thailand, (you can read all about it “I thought I had a good one”), but it fell over and to this day I don’t know why, although I do have my thoughts. One of the final conversations went like this:

Me…to her “you told me you loved me, and I was you boyfriend and you wanted to be with me for ever’

Her…with a look of innocence “yes”

Me… “But you told your brother I was only a friend”

Her… with the same look of innocence “yes”

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ME…” so you lied to your brother”

Her…, with a look of horror “NO never lie to my brother”

Me…”SO you lied to me”

Her…No Mickey I would never lie to you”

Believe me that conversation is a common analogy in Thailand. Yes and all you experts will say, that is the way they are, it is about face. No to me it is weakness of character. They don’t mind showing strength of character when they are angry, what about Buddha’s golden rule “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Thais are all things to all people when it suits them. I’m also an Aviation historian, read what happened at the beginning of the second world war, read about victory monument, it says it all.

After all that, I will get to the real story. I am convinced there are good girls in Thailand, it must be so, you hear of so many who have a happy loving relationships. I have friends who are exceedingly happy with there wives, but I am convinced it takes a certain personality to have a Thai wife and maybe I have not got it.

King Solomon once said he couldn’t find one single good woman in the whole world, but me being the forever pessimist, went on my search, and after my humbling experience last year decided if my dog dies go out and buy another one. Since that time I have dated 18 different women and without going into detail about there foibles I eventually found what I thought was a “good girl”. Let's have a look at her – we will call her A. For a start she has a common interest in my line of work, is 37, never married and no kids (yes that goes with the good girl) speaks good English and is quite articulate, and analytic, finished university and came top 3 out of 150 in an Air traffic Control Course. She dresses well, great body and she knows how to compliment her height (no she’s not a lady boy). I’m her first farang boyfriend and she finished with a Thai man (he finished with her, her words) 3 years ago, and has had no one since. She has a mother who rules with an iron fist to the point where A jumps when she is told to.

The part that convinced me (don’t snigger) is she told me she is old Thai culture and there will be no sex for at least 3 months or maybe longer. She has to develop feelings first. I felt like saying I have feelings enough for both of us so can we start now but I curbed my tongue. It was really hard. She is very warm to be with and affectionate (holding hands) and after a month she stayed the night, but nothing intimate and she wore all her clothes to bed.

After 3 months she told me I could go and see her mum in KK, but her mum doesn’t know we occasionally sleep together. Hmmm, and if I want her to move in to my condo we have to meet her mum, and with her Mum's blessing we can get engaged.

The odd thing is 2 days before we go to meet her Mum we go out to look at diamond rings for engagement and we eventually found some styles she liked and we had one made to suit what she wanted. I must admit I was a little bit nervous at meeting her mum. I noticed conversations A would have with her mum on the phone, she was like a tyrant and A was so submissive. It was pitiful, but eventually the day came and I meet her mum who was although ok couldn’t speak English but was warm enough and had a good sense of humor. I kept catching her staring at me, and I smiled at A and asked why her mum was staring at me. She said Mum thinks you have kind eyes and she can tell by my face I am a good person and have a good heart. I felt like saying yer yer all my friends say the same thing it means SFA, but I said “how sweet, so nice for her to say that”

The next day we do some sightseeing and in the afternoon the 2 ladies are having a D&M. Eventually A looks to me and says, mum wants to know when are you going to pay sin sot. I said to A first how much is sin sot and she said to me 200,000 baht. I said that’s ok but I thought you pay sin sot when you get married. A talks to her mum and turns to me and says, yes, but you have to pay another 200,000 when we get married. I go a little quiet and say ok, they continue talking (all the time in Lao).

After a while A turns to me and says what are you thinking?

I’m glad I had a few minutes to get my wits together, so I said to her, “Honey it is a Thai culture thing, not a farang thing. I understand your culture and although I don’t necessarily agree with it, I don’t have a problem paying sin sot, in fact I expect to pay, but 2 things: number one, I thought you only pay at the wedding, and number two, I feel extremely (emphasis on extremely) uncomfortable paying any money to someone who I have only known for 3 months. I don’t really know your personality and we haven t even had sex. You might hate sex. We might not be compatible. You might hate me after 6 months.

She was ok with that and translated it to her mum who went a bit quiet and after a few minutes says in English (yes English), I don’t understand, if you love A and it is her culture why don’t you pay sin sot.

I said to Mum "That is my point. Yes I do love A and if A loved me and understood MY culture, she would compromise. If you insist on your culture you should look for a Thai boyfriend." <Classic line this, one we should all rememberStick>

A said to me Mickey I understand, because we have had the conversation before, but I said to her, explain to your mum that in Farangland we don’t have sin sot and in fact we are repulsed that money and love should go together. Some farang refuse to pay when they marry a Thai girl. She was visually shocked by that. She said really how many. I said 50%, She was even more shocked and she said to me who do you know that wont pay. I said to her, my friend J who is a multi millionaire and he refuses to pay one baht. That is his choice and it is not up to me to judge him, but her life and her parents' life is better than it has ever been. As for me I don’t have a problem paying, but I feel uncomfortable paying any thing now, and I’m not sure about twice.

Anyway, after all that they were both ok and A is Ok. I don’t see her quite so much now, and we have had sex twice. Now the first time was as you would expect the first time to be, not good, and the second time, last week before we started she said to me I should pay sin sot first, but it still happened. You just get this feeling when you know it isn’t right but as I said before, they do have a culture but it is flexible to suit the occasion, and if it means dancing with a chrome pole with nothing more then a gee string one day and the next day you can't hold your hand because we have gone to her village, so be it. It may be it is true what the Thais say to me kid mak but personally I think Thais don’t / can't think enough.

Your thoughts would be appreciated on the sin sot.

Stickman's thoughts:

Run for the hills! The more I hear about the way sin sot is handled in Thailand when a Westerner enters the mix, the more I think that it becomes something resembling a cash grab.

It is my experience that there is a direct correlation between the social strata of a family the Westerner is marrying into and what happens to the sin sot. If she is from the lower echelons of society, the money is kept, and sadly, often pilfered away on silly things. If the lady comes from a middle class background or higher, the money is often returned, and often returned with extra to help the new couple with the purchase of a house.

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