Stickman Readers' Submissions October 20th, 2008

In My Image

It’s annoying when you read a submission filled with some really useful information when it also contains enough bogus information, stereotypes, and personal biases to fill a rowboat. But it's just plain sad when someone takes someone to task in a rebuttal for specific views considered wrong, distorted, exaggerations, partial, nonsense (the list is rather long) when they turn around and exhibit the same tendencies in such a glaring way. This submission is in response to the “Contra Jayson” submission written by someone who couldn’t see their way to sign it with anything other than “Anonymous.”

Before we go any further a word or two about my own personal experiences. I didn’t grow up in New York and I am not a metrosexual.

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Imagine, a guy in his 20’s who has probably been in Thailand a year or two working on a western salary who’s got Thai women all figured out. He really put to shame the guys with 20+ years more experience with women and 10+ years in Thailand who regularly admit they’re not even close to figuring out Thai women. I’m thinking we should build a monument to this guy where farangs from far and wide can come and pay homage to his wisdom and experience. We could call it “Farang Monument” and the most appropriate location would be smack dab in the middle of Asoke Montri road, you know that portion between Petchaburi and Sukhumvit that normally takes about two hours to transverse the 500-700 meters almost anytime night or day? It would give people driving by at less than 1kph a chance to really appreciate his “clues..”

Reading this the author tells us that Jayson is wrong about many things and I tend to agree. Jayson in his submissions was basically telling us why Thai girls go crazy over him and his type and couldn’t be bothered with anyone else. Then we’re told basically the same thing by “Anonymous”, that the “classy and beautiful” Thai girls prefer New York metrosexuals over all other farang. Sorry, but anyone of average intelligence will find it easy to pick out when someone thumps their chest and tells us the girls only find “men like me” worthwhile or attractive. This tendency to create Mr. Super Stud “In My Image” is quite telling.

As we “grow up” we tend to recognize that most people are products of their environment and experiences. Usually this is when we also realize that people other than ourselves have their own sets of environments and experiences which can be quite different from our own, but still filled with valid and useful information. We call this maturity. We know that we don’t hold the golden chalice of truth, that others have been there and done that before us and often have very different views just as valid as our own. Let’s take a look as some specific claims made in this submission: “and many farang guys, younger ones to be sure, very much fulfil the Thai preference for refined male beauty over rugged male beauty.”

Refined male beauty = Metrosexuals? The author doesn’t describe which features make men beautiful one way or the other, but he sure seems to have his opinions on male beauty. Anyone else curious why? A “clue” perhaps? Personally I leave it to the women to classify male beauty and tend to be very skeptical of men classifying other men’s beauty because as a man I tend to have very little in common with such men. I do have opinions on female beauty, and I find there are beautiful females of all colors and races and nationalities. I find it very difficult to believe women find men are any different.

“But the more salient point is that women anywhere – and especially Thailand! – don't choose their partners primarily on looks. This is such a well known point about female psychology that Jayson's discussion of relative ideals of beauty seems astonishingly naive and beside the point.”

I would agree with this if we’re talking about “husbands” vs. “partners.” However, women “partner up” all the time with men they are attracted to primarily because of looks. The author goes on to tell us that it’s all about money, and then it’s all about social status and class. Then he picks one trait and that becomes the holy grail ALL women are after. In my experience women choose men they only want for sex and fun, based on looks and personality. More, some women prefer one type of look and personality, and other women another type. Any male who has reached puberty has already noticed he finds many different types of “looks” attractive, and that the next guy is likely to have a totally different criteria. Some men like big breasts, some prefer nice legs. Some men like women in cocktail dresses, some prefer them in jeans and t-shirts. Some men like women with makeup, some prefer then with no makeup. What would make anyone think women are any different and “mostly“ prefer one type of guy dressed a certain way, and that this guy looks like them?

Women choose husbands based on an overall aggregate of many qualities important to them. It’s absolutely absurd to pretend we know what “all” girls prefer, or even “all” girls from a certain “class.” Men who think things like this are almost always men who are “sexually unsuccessful” and they’re unsuccessful precisely because they don’t really understand women at all, so they never go out there and try with the women they’re attracted to because they’re assuming the women don’t want them. Of course this attitude could go the other way and produce the type of man who thinks women only want men like him. Sound familiar? Women prefer different types of men. You will never know if that beautiful woman you’re admiring would be interested in you unless you give her a chance to find out who you are.

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“Look around you at RCA at the hot girls” “have spent lots of time living and partying in Bangkok” “indulge too much in the naughty bar scene” “upper class Thai friends (another key instrument of success with Thai girls, by the way – the quality of your Thai friends)” “Thailand success is often dependent on your social connections or social network”

This collection of quotes almost speaks for itself. But lets pair it with:

“good looking, high quality Thai girls” “ A beautiful Thai girl who is turned on by high status – as all girls everywhere are – knows all this very,” “high quality Thai girls – white skinned, tall, refined, and delicate” “tall, white skinned, refined Thai beauty” “upper class Thais”

Tall and white skinned. Is this guy trying to tell us that quality Thai friends hang out in naughty bars, or that you need social connections to get into the naughty bars? I’m confused.

Folks, “class” has absolutely nothing to do with the color of your skin or how tall you are. In my mind it doesn’t even have anything to so with how much money you have. Those who strive to build their definition of “class” around money, how they dress, what they drive, and who they know.. are the most shallow undesirable people I’ve ever met in my life. I was only in New York long enough to pick up my undergrad degree, but my home town and area is Santa Monica, Beverly Hills, Pacific Palisades, Brentwood, Malibu, and I have family still living inside the west gate of Bel-Air. I know all about shallow people, and as bad as those I grew up around were, they didn’t hold a candle to their counterparts in upper Manhattan or Amagansett. Character defines class. And we find worthy character traits in people from the poor black man on the bus who gives up his seat for the pregnant woman, to the poor Thai rice farmer who stopped what they were doing and spent the better part of their day helping me find someone who could repair the brace for my leg I need to walk well. “Class” is not looking down your nose at others because they have less than you, look different, come from a different place, or lack a certain annoying upper east side English dialect..

“lets face it, the farang community in Thailand is an extremely unrepresentative sample of Westerners. There is a disproportionate number of real scummy people, and the decent folks are nearly always very nice, very decent, but pretty low-class people. Quite nice people, but often rougher sorts, or working class type people – in short, rarely refined, good looking, professional types. And the few professional types that are here are rarely young and good looking.”

I could see how someone would think this if most of their experience is in the tourist bar areas, or if they have never taken the time to get to know those around them because they assume they have no “class.” Let me tell you about my immediate circle of friends who are all expats living here in Thailand, or better yet lets go around the dinner table from a gathering just a few months back.

Only one of the guys is 50 or above and he’s been here 30 years. He’s made his way here in Thailand for 30 years on pure wit. He currently has two pretty little girls and a wife who are his family. The rest of us range in age from 33-49. There were eight of us, four had Phd’s that I was aware of, Molecular Biology, Psychology, Sociology and Music. The others had undergraduate and masters degrees. There are at least 10 others who are friends of this group who regularly visit Thailand with the same type of credentials. 5-6 of us are either current or have been at one point college professors. Many people from Stick’s site have meant and know me, and any one of them will tell you I’m not making this up. Not refined or classy enough? Oh, one of these friends is a Thai female with a Ph.d (from a top USA university) and a college professor at the best university in Thailand.

Here’s the ass kicker. Every few months we get together and go hit the Cowboy or Nana as a group, and I’m pretty sure as we all walk down the Cowboy together having a great time there will be some New York Metrosexual Prick nursing a beer at a table somewhere, giving us the once over and based on nothing more than appearance alone will make the assumption “these guys are rougher sorts, working class type people, not refined or professional at all. LOW CLASS ALL THE WAY.”
Who does such a person really say the most about?

I’ll close with this thought. I’m nothing special and those who know me here in Thailand, and there are more than a few, will know I’m not exaggerating when I say this. In my over 20 years in Asia, almost six years now in Thailand, I have never hesitated to approach any woman from any class structure who I find attractive, and have never received less than positive responses. Being “sexually successful” has noting to do with what you are, but it has everything to do with who you are and how adept you are in helping others know you. Don’t short change your experiences here in Thailand by letting a Jayson or Anonymous tell you anything different. And definitely don’t short change Thai women by believing they’re as shallow as these two guys are telling you.

Until next time..

Stickman's thoughts:

While I do not disagree with many of the points made, I am still with Contra man on this one.

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