Stickman Readers' Submissions September 6th, 2008


This submission is directed towards the middle-aged men who frequent Stickman's site.

Here is my attempt to define what goes into making a successful butterfly.

Most of the ideas I present here, I have already gone over in my previous subs – "Tuition", "Two Tours and Different Types of Women", and a "A Great Education", but want to present the information one more time, primarily because these ideas really helped me and hopefully they will help someone else also.

Please forgive any redundant ideas and quotes. Hopefully there will be a new idea and insight here also. You see, a true butterfly is usually a middle aged man.

Why middle aged? Because a butterfly must go through enough sexual experiences and GFE experiences AND REALIZE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE before he can successfully and confidently become a butterfly.

First off, getting access to a lot of sexual experience is powerfully important for a middle aged male.

It frees us from any dependency and illusions women's sexual power may have over us.

It gives us options and freedom. It relieves craving and gives us composure and balance.

I certainly wouldn't trade my sexual experience for anything.

I am pretty sure most men on this site feel the same way.

The GFE experience is also incredibly important. It is the experience of falling in love. Here is what I wrote in "Tuition" about my GFE experience: "Love happens when two people get their deep needs met. For me, that need was a young beauty who adored me. For Asian women, as noted at this website, it is all about the money. That powerful attraction of my wanting a young beauty and her wanting stability and money drove our love affair for over a year.

After a year my need for a GFE had been met and I became less inclined to freely part with so much cash. When you first find that Asian young beauty who adores you, all you want to do is give, give, give. But after a year, you get tired of giving all the time.

On her side, when the cash started drying up and the love faded, she went back to being an independent woman fully capable of making her own money and not really caring to make me the object of her adoration. So the love faded."

Most men are driven from an early age to have the sexual and the GFE experiences.

When we are younger, we think sexual and GFE experience has a deeper meaning, and that it's purpose it to find our lover, "the one".

But as we get older, we come to understand that the sexual and GFE experience is more about biology than anything else.

It is about reproduction and the continuation of the species.

Here is what I wrote in "Two Tours and Different Types of Women"

"The GFE experience is like a powerful drug, similar to cocaine and heroine. The GFE throws you into a highly drugged state, It is called love. The problem is, it only lasts for 12-18 months. When the GFE is over, you may find that you have nothing in common with your girlfriend. Because the GFE is not about finding a person that is a good match for you. It is something more primal than that. It is nature drugging you for it's own purpose. It is nature seeking to reproduce itself.

In that incredible submission "On Our Desire To Defy Gravity" the writer states "Biology is not about good intentions. It is about procreation. It wants us to continue the species, not have a good time. It gives us a good time, indeed, but only so we will continue the species. Once that happens, we have a diminishing value to the greater natural order."

On Love/GFE also see Korski's "Men Who Fall in Love With Hookers Are Clinically Sick".

"Now what is never admitted, or even really known about in any rational or quasi-scientific sense in this new life with an alien hooker from a largely unknown culture, is that the man is, in fact, clinically sick. He is sick in the same sense that a schizophrenic or a person suffering from chronic depression or bi-polar disorder is sick. There is a chemical imbalance in his brain, just as there is with schizophrenics and the millions, tens of millions of people worldwide, who suffer from chronic depression. But unlike people everywhere with mental illnesses that we now know are principally the result of brain chemistry imbalances rather than problems rooted in twisted childhoods and bad parents, it never occurs to the farang madly in love with a Thai hooker that he could be sick in the very same way as mental patients are sick. Love is, in fact, a sickness that looks a lot like someone with a compulsive–obsessive disorder, or one seriously addicted to the most dangerous drugs known. Love is a sickness that can commonly last in rather severe form for a period ranging from twelve to eighteen months."

I know many of you fine gentleman can present other reasons for getting into a relationship. But, bottom line, the primal driver for relationship, for many of the men on this site, is sex and the GFE.

See "Raymond's Relationship Rules". Rule Number 14 and 15. Raymond's "Wood-eye / Woodant -eye" Law

"I will never forget the trouble I got into with my second wife about 25 years ago, when slightly drunk at a home dinner party, I dared to tell the truth about the way in which all "straight" males view women.

Every single time a woman between 16 and 76 comes within the vision scope of a male, he automatically asks and answers a question within a fraction of a second.

He has no choice about the asking or the choice of answer, it is inherent in the beast, and the answer is processed automatically according to his personal brain stored parameters, with no conscious effort.

That questions is : "Would I or wouldn't I ?", i.e. have sex with that female, if the opportunity was there at that moment.

It doesn't matter if the same office girl walks past his door 50 times a day, every single time he sees her, the question will be asked and answered.

Women absolutely cannot stand to hear such truths expressed, and you reveal this to them at your own peril.

15. The next time a (probably Western) woman expresses her disgust and horror at learning that I live in the "disgustingly prostitution ridden" city of Pattaya, Thailand, where I "take advantage of young women young enough to be my daughter", I swear I will tell them the truth.

The truth is that when any male, at any time, anywhere in the world, decides to make an amorously based approach to a woman, it is because he has answered "yes" to the question in point 14 above – there is absolutely no other basis for it at that first meeting stage. i.e. he would like to have sex with her if he gets the chance.

So what usually happens to men who don't understand the true purpose of sex and the GFE. They end up married and with babies. Yes, it is all so meaningful at the beginning.

But what young men don't understand is that eventually the sex and GFE will fade when life starts to get in the way.

Why does the sex fade.

See "Raymond's Relationship Rules"

Rule number 2. "The first time a man has sex with a woman, is in fact the beginning of the end of the relationship, or at the very least, the beginning of the eventual end of good sex within the relationship. The end may be one day away, or be postponed by the sex getting better with practice for a limited time, or survive on habit and boredom for 30 years, but the end is inevitable. This is because to a man, conquering a woman is like conquering Mount Annapurna – you want to 'mount' it so as to get to the top. When you do, you look around and say – 'Wow – look at Mount Everest over there – I simply have to climb that!!', so you dismount that mountain and go and conquer another more challenging one!"

Why does the GFE and LOVE fade in marriage? Here is Raymond's Relationship Rule Number 13.

"It took me 40 years of adult life, 4 marriage ceremonies and 3 divorces, (yes I renewed the vows with one of them – wasn't that sweet but futile!), and some very detailed self analysis, to finally figure out WHY we men ultimately fail in our attempts at medium or long term relationships with one woman.

Like Einstein's revelations, it's actually quite simply expressed.

It's all to do with the one thing that's even more certain in life than death and taxes – CHANGE !!!!

When we males are "in-love" with a woman, we are TOTALLY blinded and unaware that we are operating under several MASSIVE delusions:

– that NOTHING in the relationship is EVER going to change or,

– that the loving couple can cope with any such changes – an equally MASSIVE delusion!

i.e. The sex will always be as good as it is 'now', the woman will always look as attractive as we view her as being 'now', our (much over-emphasized) 'common interests' will ALWAYS remain mutual, our life priorities will NEVER change, children and mortgage and job stresses will NEVER affect OUR relationship, OUR sets of parents can never possibly affect OUR relationship (unlike everyone else's!), ad-infinitum.

The sad reality is that EVERY single one of these factors changes, some within weeks of marriage, let alone over 5 to 10 years, but we are so blind, so trusting, so unrealistic, so sincere, so ignorant, that we shed tears when we take the marriage vows (in my case 4 times!)

When one considers the above and that the hunter / gatherer male brain has not changed one tiny iota in 100,000 years, (we play with laptops and mobile phones now instead of clubs to kill mastodons with!), then how can a male possibly believe that he can have a successful 'long-term' relationship with a woman (unless of course we give up good sex)."

Also see Korski's great submission "In the Rathole"

"You know what I mean by the Rathole, don't you? Sure you do, everyone does, they just have their own names for it.

It's the bottle, it's the fat, it's the wife you hate, it's the ex-wife you hate because she took all your money, it's the kids who can't even remember your telephone number. It's the job you only endure, and hate. The neighbors you'd like to shoot. The bad dreams that keep repeating and keep you awake at night.

I'm not going to try to tell you exactly when it happens, when you get one foot in the Rathole, and then it's two feet in and you're sliding down and there's nothing to grab onto and then you look up one day and you know there's no getting up and out. Nope, none at all. You've only got the End to look forward to.

Also, Stickman's site teaches us that the sex and GFE are not only temporary and will fade, but can be reproduced over and over again with different women.

Our woman is not "the one". In fact, any man could have fulfilled your woman's purpose.

Here is Dana's input on this point.

Thai Thoughts and Anecdotes 68

"The women are the cats. The men are the mice. All women know this. Few men know this. So the notion that the two of you were ever looking in the same life direction is absurd. She wanted a baby. She needed a man's sperm. Men are interchangeable to women. Any man would have done. You stepped up to the plate. You showed up at the church. Now she has got her mother and her sisters and her friends and her cell phone and she has got HER baby: what does she need you for? Well, there is one itsy bitsy teeny weeny little thing-MONEY. She needs your money. Now starts the denouement as you stand in the courts and find that there are now suddenly multiple ideas of the social contract; yours, your wife's, and the courts. Only these three divergent views are not three points of a triangle but three disparate starships hurtling away from one another! The child has no say. Good luck."

Here is another fine excerpt from that amazing submission:

"The woman's chemistry set of life requires sperm and money. That's where you come in. Not your personality or your hopes or your dreams or your needs or your special features that make the special you. Just your sperm and your money. Lucky men go to the deathbed never learning this. The rest of us become philosophic-worldly-weary. Nothing slows the step like disappointment.

Every woman is a contestant and a hobbyist. They are competing against their sisters and their friends and their mothers who have already had babies. They have to prove they are as much a woman as these other women by grunting out more beating hearts that the world does not need. Hence the "Honey, I'm pregnant!" statement that eventually erupts from all of their bargirl bodies. Your job-your very survival: depends on never being in front of a woman when she says those words.

And every woman is a hobbyist. And the hobby is babies. A hobby is a personal endeavor that makes no societal contribution but gives pleasure. There is nothing more selfish than making babies. After methane gas farting cattle; babies are the world's biggest pollutant. They suck up oxygen that others need and expel carbon dioxide which is a poison. If you get trapped in a small room full of babies it is a fight (flight) for life as you try to suck up enough oxygen out of the air to make it to the exit.

And babies demand and place loads on goods and services and caloric output and stress and money far beyond their value. They make no contribution. The day I see babies holding jackhammers or paint spray guns or shovels on the Phra Pinklao bridge I might change my mind. In the meantime, don't send a woman back for the ammo. Because if she sees another big hipped wonder at the ammo dump she will forget all about you dodging bullets at the front line. The two of them will stand around under starburst shells and mortars and talk about babies. Men are the brooch on the costume of a woman's life. Utilized and valued strictly on a need to need basis. A man's cell phone directory in Bangkok has a few numbers-a woman's cell phone directory has 20-50 numbers-all women; don't look for your name. When she is talking to her friends; do you think your name comes up? You were part of the chemistry set that begat the child but you are not part of the societal equation."

What a blow all of these lessons give to those that hoped sex and GFE/love would mean that we would finally find "the one" and be in love forever.

So, here we are, middle aged men. We have been through sexual experience, the GFE experience. We have seen them for what they truly are.

We have seen why they are fragile and why they fade. What does that leave us.

Once again, please read Dana's powerful piece on male and female relationships:

Thai Thoughts and Anecdotes 68

"So what are you reduced to? You are reduced to gathering as many female contact dust motes as you can and trying to capture them in your hand. One girl kisses you, another whispers in your ear, a third woman puts her ankles behind her head, a fourth can stand on her hands in the shower, someone insists on washing you in the bath, another cries at the airport when you leave, Wan or Pea or Nid laughs happily when you start to circle the temple the wrong way, one girl lets you do this and another lets you do that, etc. It is never perfect with any of them. Almost 100% of the time there are disappointments. But if you add up all of the little experiences and kind of coalesce them; well, on the way home in the airplane you can tell yourself you had a pretty fine vacation and some fun and special sexual experiences with some wonderful women. Of course you had to do all of the work, and you had to sift a lot of sand, and you had to endure a lot of uncivilized behavior and abuse in this world of compromise and predation; but it's the results that count. You were able to put something together. You didn't fall in love and you were not really taken seriously by other human beings and there will be no marriage or life fulfilling mating; but you'll be back. This world of criminal opportunism, racism, ignorance, venality and greed was better than the place you came from. Jesus, what a world. It's tough to be a man."

Well there you have it. A man goes through a lot to become a butterfly. Once he does, a butterfly has a good life. He can indulge in the sex and the GFEs and see them for what they are, but is detached from falling into the sticky mess that endangers less experienced and educated men. My thanks to all those who publish submissions on Stickman's site that provide this education. You can find everything you need on this website to successfully become a butterfly. As Dana says, "Stickman's site is the world repository for information regarding Thai female-farang male relationships. It is an open forum and all of the evidence is in. Cultural differences have been delineated and analyzed. However, I am not sure Thai female-farang male cultural differences are the main event. I think the main event is that we are talking about men and women."

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Stickman's thoughts:

Very well put together!!!

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