Stickman Readers' Submissions August 6th, 2008

Advice On A Former Bargirl

My name is Richard and I am a Swede living in Norway. I think I am starting to lose my mind and when I see maybe I can get some help from the experienced people here on Stickman.

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For soon 6 months ago I did my first trip to LOS and met the most wonderful girl. It was in the end of the trip after first visiting Pattaya and Bangkok with a friend with more than enough experience of that kind of life. I guess we did the
usual routines for men who want some action.

To make a long story a little shorter, we finally ended up on Lamai Beach, Koh Samui which maybe isn't the best place to find a nice lady for a longer relationship. But after many girls this one in particular seemed different. By this
time I had met a bunch of Thai girls, from the newly arrived Isaan girl who speaks 2 words English to the professional farang-eater.

Well this lady seemed more like the innocent Isaan lady who speaks very limited English than the opposite. She wasn't a goddess in bed and was still pretty shy, not the smallest and cutest lady I could find. Relatively old, 26 (me 27).
Her messages in English were written with . or – instead of a space between words etc.

I stayed with her for a week because she was good company and basically I enjoyed her company very much. When we went back to Bangkok for some more shopping we kept in contact by SMS. I still had the mantra in my ears, the stories my more
experienced friend had told me…. Never fall in love with a bargirl!

After arriving home to a cold and snowy winter something happened. As most people who come home from Thailand do I got pretty depressed, and when I had to stay completely alone for a weekend I decided to send a message to this girl who I
actually missed after the good times we had spent together. I still was pretty convinced that nothing more than some messages would be the final result.

The weeks passed and well, the begging for money appeared. She sent me a message where she told me that it was her birthday, and she had no money and asked me if I could send her some.

OK I thought, sure I like this girl and she can get it. She maybe lies but what the hell.

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I sent her 5000 baht the following day, not much money for me anyway. The get everything in order a actually called her for the first time that day. My biggest impression then was that it was just hard to get her to understand what I said
to her. Bad English on her side then the usual mantra from the bar life.

We continued to speak more and more. After a month we kind of spoke everyday more or less. Only short calls because we were still pretty limited due to the language barrier. But she slowly got better, the SMSs we send started to look better
(and yes I recognise that many of the words she started to use were exactly the same I used to send to her). After some time she also became better at speaking when she overcame some of the shyness. She told me that she had stayed in Lamai in
the bar now for 5 months (which I felt was a little to much for my taste). Before she had worked in a sweatshop /t-shirt factory in Bangkok for some years.

In the middle of April she, about one and a half month after I met her, made a decision. According to her she had pretty big problems with her boss, both now and in the past because she simply didn't like the work. In the beginning she
was scared of farang men and after that simply had no money to leave, not wanting to go home to the family without a spare baht. After she had met me and we started to have more regular contact she got in trouble because she didn't want to
go with men anymore. And that is not what a mamasan wants to hear as we all know. (Much of this is things I picked up later)

Simply she asked me for money so she could go home to her village and wait for me.

I was still in very much doubt about her intentions because of the way we met. I didn't like to send her money really but as I was in the same time vacuum gleaned the internet for similar stories and experiences. I realized the problem with dating
a prostitute and tried everything I could to find holes in her story. In the beginning I didn't really care so much, I knew what she did to put food on the table, and is also the oldest daughter of her family which gives quite some responsibility.

I said yes and sent her a few thousand baht for expenses and a bus ticket. She said she went home to Sa Keao.

One morning I just woke up and started to cry. I realised I was hopelessly in love with this girl. I tried to find more horror stories to make me understand my own stupidity.

But we kept speaking on the telephone on a daily basis. I knew she was home in her village. I spoke to her mother a few times (who does not speak any English).

By this time I had read so much literature, tips and stories about Thai ladies, especially bar ladies. I started to get understand more and more how things worked in this kind of things. During the time I also started to study Thai which
I still do with big eagerness.

Even more time passed and I went on looking for signs that she would uncover her true self as someone who would take my money and leave. I started to wait for the usual requests for money, fix a leaking roof, sick kwai or something
like that.

But no, I didn't find anyting she lied about, and she didn't ask for money more than a little support. And I had already considered that to be an obligation of mine since I told her she could stop working in the bar and go home.
I had read enough to understand how her life situation might be, poor from the countryside.

Finally I couldn't wait anymore, I booked a 3 week trip to LOS and changed my planned vacation to our Nordic best summer month. I simply had to meet her again ASAP.

The day I arrived in the end of June was perhaps the best day of my life. I had already understood I was crazy in love with her and we had spoken about this for such a long time.

Shortly before we decided to go see her family in Sa Keao. It was actually my idea because I saw it as a splendid opportunity to see some more of Thailand, and not just Bangkok or a sleazy bar environment where everything is accustomed for
farangs, with western food and same old worn out "hit music" everywhere. I appreciate the Thai culture and an environment very far from what I see at home.

Her village was a very beautiful place with rice fields surrounding it. The biggest problem was that everyone spoke Khmer and not Thai so we had really big problems following what anyone said. I liked the time with her family and they seemed
to be nice people who loved their children. (Of course, if I chose to stay with their daughter they wouldn't have to worry about the future anymore).

I cannot say I was surprised when her father asked me for some money to fix the leaking roof. The day before I had seen the holes in it straight where they sit in front of the TV. It cost me 1,000 baht and is something I consider to be the
best money spent on the whole trip.

The house was….not really a house as we would call it in west but more a shack. But it was at least a ground of concrete, some good walls and a sheet metal roof. It was far from the worst house in the village but still not comparable to the house where
the Norwegian man was staying. (I never met him since he was on a holiday trip to Samui). He had a real nice house. Can't say it was big or luxurious but still a real house.

But then I really understood why so many girls from these villages go to sell themselves to tourists. You could easily see where the lived farang in the new fresh houses. Probably almost everyone who met a girl from a "bar" so everyone
there knew exactly what a meeting with a farang would give.

One thing that was different with her was how cute and nice she was. She really wanted to show she could take care of me like a good lady should in her eyes. I wasn't even allowed to refill my own beer when her mother was in sight. She
was also determined that she could show me that she could make delicious food. Something she told me over and over again as I got to try new food I liked (and directly if it was something I liked – I can make!!!!).

It was a wonderful week in her home village but after that I simply had had enough of it. It gets boring when everyone wants your best all the time and is ready to serve you (I can take care of myself to be honest) but barely speak English
and conversation is most often held in Khmer where I don't understand anything. Besides, even if her mother only wanted the best, I'm not really used to all that attention. And after all I wanted to spend some more time alone with my
girl where she did not have her parents around, in a more relaxed environment where I could hug her and kiss her without "crossing the border".

We went back to Bangkok and on to Koh Samui same night.

This is where the first bad things appeared.. or not really but when we went to her old bar the first night and her boss expected me to pay barfine I kind of lost it. (And not even asked if I wanted to pay for her which I at least consider

Of course held it up before them, paid with a smile but afterwards I simply couldn't touch her. I didn't spend all this money on a trip to Samui just to go buy a hooker. I'm ashamed I made her cry that evening but I felt so
cold inside. Many bad thoughts crossed my mind and I told her that we should go get her a hotel room for the night. If she really was some kind of real girlfriend to me I couldn't pay a barfine. It's not the money, maybe more my Scandinavian
heritage that went wrong.

I gave her the choice to go back and get the 300 baht I paid or we find a new room for her. I know I was harsh but she actually did it with the tears dripping.

Next morning we were back to normal again. But more trouble came up because of me. Next night we went out with one of her old friends from the bar. We went to Chaweng after a visit to a karaoke bar. The strange thing is that it was her old
friends who decided when should go to a gogo bar. I wasn't really interested as I had someone I really loved with me. But something went bad.. This was a really bad gogo bar. Sold ping pong balls to the men to throw at the girls so they would
fall while dancing. Of course seen it before but it makes me sick to see. After seeing a fat German score and a girl fall I couldn't stay.

Me and my girl went back to Lamai instead where we had quite a talk. I made her cry again and went out to have a beer somewhere.. alone… After some time I called her and asked if she wanted to come and she came. She was not happy I could
see.. more devastated because I had said before I maybe couldn't love a girl who would take me to such a place as the gogo bar.

Well I wasn't really fair to be honest. It wasn't her decision to go there but her friends. And they probably thought it was a place I would like since it is what most farang men who go to Lamai like.

We had several talks where I really was hard on her and made her cry (I think real tears). But this I guess was something really important for me to do to be able to trust her. I was honest with her about what I think about lies. She even
admitted she lied to me about her birthday the first time I sent her money (well, I guess I already knew that). And she was pretty clear on that if too many of that kind of things comes up it's over forever.

But luckily nothing more came up. I felt she actually was honest with me all the time we spent together this time. She explained the lie and why pretty well. (Well what the hell, she worked in a bar, it's her God damn duty to make money
and send home).

The rest of the time was really good together. Not out partying very much, more like going to the beach and eating som tam with her friends (who had farang boyfriends or just worked as cleaners and I did not want to spend my times
with active bargirls any more after the gogo bar). I admit, after the last time I put her to question I felt so bad I bought her a new mobile phone the day after. She needed a new one anyway so…

Soon the trip was over, back to BKK for some more shopping. My lady who I think I spoiled to much this time (she could buy whatever she wanted but as she was happy with 200 baht handbags or 100 baht shirts it was kind of ok). When she got
a pair of jeans from Central (350 baht on 70% sale) I saw how happy she became. Even though she had worked in a factory in BKK for years she never had visited any of the shopping malls. She didn't let me go look at anything she thought expensive
at Siam Discovery. But since I stay in Norway which is one of the most expensive countries in the world I simply had to buy some decent things to bring home or buy it at 6 times the price in Norway.

Our farewell was hard. The last week I woke up every morning with tears in my eyes because it would soon be time to go. I think haven't been so happy for many many years as when I had her company.

Here back home everything seems pointless. I simply miss her so much I'm going crazy. Eventually maybe to get a Schengen visa for her so she can stay with me for 3 months. I have no more vacation time to take this year after 2 trips
and 6 weeks all up in LOS.

I really want to spend more time with this girl. I can't say I'm still 100% sure on her as I have seen her home and the nearby farang houses. She says she does not like Thai men because they drink, gamble, go with other ladies and
occasionally hit their wife. She has relatives with farang boyfriends which have gone both good and bad.

But I really believe she loves me. I'm pretty much up to date with what is expected of me to help her family if she stays with me. I have already helped during the months she was not working, and even more while I was visiting. I love
her little sister who is 15 and am considering helping her to finish her education even if it wouldn't work between me and her older sister. They say she has got good grades now.

Her father is a house builder, not a regular worker but the guy in command over the others. That explains the concrete floor and relatively stable house they have, even though it's small.

There is so much to tell that I can't cover in a story like this. But I'm also very scared about what will happen. I explained to her that if I take her to Norway for a 3 month holiday it doesn't mean I will marry her. I think
everything would be so much easier if I hadn't met her in a bar.. but it's also good in a way because I understand very well why she went there. I would probably do the same in the same given situation. I don't think she has other
farang boyfriends (or Thai), and she really sucks at computers which assures me she's not one of the internet flirters. So many who find a girlfriend in Thailand deny she has ever done anything bad (like work in a bar) but my impression is
that any lady who is after a farang boyfriend is more or less the same in that way. And besides, she has had some experiences that a girl straight from the farm wouldn't have even though she still is pretty shy when it comes to activities
in bed.

I don't know really, when writing this whether I really feel I found a great girl for me. I don't care so much that it would cost me some money because I really love her. But I also have a big fear of what will happen after this
big buzz of love ends. As I mentioned before she isn't the smallest and cutest girl I could find and it's not her looks I fell in love with. Myself, I could probably find a rich girl in Bangkok if I tried because Thais usually find me
good looking, blonde, 27 years old, look like max 23 (the Thais always think not a day over 20). I have a good job and a stable income. I'm not the one who likes to drink myself pissed every night but take care with the booze.

Simply I think I'm quite a catch for a poor Thai lady who doesn't enjoy the bar life. She's like me and doesn't like too much drinking.

The thing that I feel make such a big impression is that she's not asking me to send her money. She's more into showing me she would be a great wife that can take care of me and cook delicious Thai food. Not that I'm after
a household slave and have also told her that. I've been pretty open with her about what horrors I have read about and what friends tell me. I think she understands what I mean very well, because she's seen it all with her own eyes.
The ladies who come back to the bar after a crashed relationship as well as those who live happily ever after with their husbands now.

I know this is a wall of text that does not say very much. I don't think she's cheating, just want the view of someone more experienced.

Now I'm trying to send her on an English course to make our communication easier. It's no problem as long as I keep it simple, but before I can promise her too much I want us to be able to speak about more complicated stuff too
without having to look in a dictionary every time. And perhaps also to try and she how motivated she is. She tells me she wouldn't mind going and learning some more because she really wants to be able to speak to me to and understand everything
I say. My Thai studies will still take some time before they give any real harvest.

I'm still not into marrying her but since I miss her so much and must wait to next year before I can go to Thailand again I feel a 3 month visa to visit me is the only solution (or quit my well paid job, but I guess that's nothing
she wants. <DON'T do that – Stick>

I pretty much have understood that she probably wants to be with me because I can help support her family and take good care of her. And also that an invitation to Norway is a way for me to marry her (I know she wants that too. She misunderstood
me one time when I said the opposite and I never heard her so happy).

But I have told her she probably has to work if she wants to stay with me and she's ok with it. But I don't want her to go work in a t-shirt factory as she suggested she could. Maybe something easier that maybe does not pay so much
but shows that she is serious.

Am I'm just a stupid little boy who dreams too much? I feel it's kind of different from the usual 40 – 50 year old man who picks up a 20 year old puma who gets front row in the bar and thinks she would love me forever. My beloved
does not even know that I have got a pretty good income. She thinks I'm pretty poor (ok I'm pretty rich when it comes to the ordinary Thai standard) but she does not feel like a ruthless gold digger.

I would be happy for just some words, just anything, good or bad. I'm not trying to be stupid but because I'm crazy in love I might be missing a lot that I probably chose not to see. But hopefully I have given this more thought
and investigation than the ordinary guy who get ripped off by a gold digger.

I am pretty much aware that this can be anything than a sunshine-story in the end. She seems so honest to me and I feel I can speak about most things with her.

Thanks in advance


Stickman's thoughts:

My advice would be to give it a go. I am usually totally against bargirl relationships and all of my usual reservations stand. But you are young, you seem to have your head screwed on and you have made two trips, the second of which was solely to see how things went with her – and on the whole, that seemed to go well. More than anything, you do seem to be madly keen on her and I get the feeling that if you don't at least try, then you will regret it for a long time. My advice to you might surprise many long term readers who know my very clear stance on such relationships. My advice is to go ahead and apply for the 3 month visa. See how things go after that and then you will have a much better idea for the future. I wish you every success with her.

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