Dating “Good” Girls, Treating Her Right

This FR is based on a late-night excursion in January, 2006.
Words from the great George “Bad to the Bone” Thorogood:

I wanna tell you a story every man outta know

If you want a little lovin' you gotta start real slow

She gonna love you tonight if you just treat her right

Oh, squeeze her real gentle, you gotta make her feel good

Tell her that you love her like you know you should

She’s gonna love you tonight if you just treat her right

If you practice my method just as hard as you can

You gonna get a reputation as a lovin' man

Yeah, you'll be glad every night that you treated her right

Hey, hey, hey

Gotta squeeze her real gentle, you gotta make her feel good

And tell her that you love her like you know you should

She’s gonna love you all night if you just treat her right

If you practice my method just as hard as you can

You gonna get a reputation as a lovin' man

Yeah, you'll be glad every night that you treated her right

Hey

If you practice my method just as hard as you can

You gonna get a reputation as a lovin' man

Then you'll be glad every night that you treated her right

Rarely are we presented with two different points of view on a potentially volatile subject where I find myself agreeing with many of the points of both posters, to wit Dana’s piece on “ethical limits” (that phrase from Dana made me laugh but I think it was supposed to) and the response by Korski (misplaced moralizing). I’m not going to address both posts point by point, blow by blow, but instead offer yet a third point of view which will probably encompass several points already made in the previous posts.

Before I do, hats off to Dana for picking a great topic. Hats off to Korski for making the point that to have credibility with an issue it helps to not be hypocritical in that which you preach. However.. while it’s true that practicing what you preach builds personal credibility, by no means is it necessary to make a valid point or opinion. Many an evil dictator / ruler was responsible for terrible atrocities, yet many of their writings and words of wisdom have continued to impress many with their compassion and insight centuries later. I suppose what I’m trying to say is perhaps we’d be better off evaluating some messages separate from the messenger and not automatically dismiss the message because the messenger is somewhat polluted (the nicest word I could come up with considering..:)

Gosh, another “before I do” topic. Let’s just cover this now. STDs and HIV / AIDS are huge threats in this part of the world and anyone not taking them seriously IMO is a fool. Anyone with a western education on this topic could also be argued to be criminal in their actions if they’re not doing everything in their power to have their individual self tested on a regular basis and to stop their individual self’s potential spread of said diseases. I’ll say this outright, anyone with an STD, especially HIV / AIDS who knowingly has protected or unprotected sex with an unknowing partner shouldn’t be jailed for their crime, but instead shot on the spot and then hanged in the public square for the birds to peck at for a few days. When you know better, and you know you could be passing on a deadly disease, yet you choose to engage in behaviors which ‘could’ give that disease to anyone else.. then in my mind you are a killer. Killers should be shot and hanged in the public square as examples.

Is ignorance an excuse? No. No more than ignorance of any law or circumstances is an excuse when it comes time to account for your actions. HIV / AIDS tests are free and available and quick almost everywhere in the world, or at least very low priced, and there’s just no excuse for anything other than monthly testing if you’re a frequent monger. Same with the run of the mill STDs but obviously since most can be cured the penalty shouldn’t be as harsh. If you’re coming to the LOS for a P4P vacation then get yourself tested before AND after and consider the inconvenience and expense something of a ‘health tax’ to benefit your favorite vacation area and your fellow man.

This brings us to my first point on the subject.

1. Thou shall not monger and date ‘good’ local girls at the same time. Why would you anyway except to save a few bucks or for some ego trip?

Yes, the local good girls are adults and they ‘should’ know the facts of life as well as you. However, they often don’t for many reasons / differences unique to Thai society. Besides, we’re only obligated to take responsibility for ourselves and if we all did that then life would much better. I suppose the spread of disease is my primary point of this submission. It’s impossible to stress enough how we must take responsibility for checking our health and ensuring we’re healthy for those we come into contact with.

The chances / odds of a P4P employee having HIV / AIDS are substantially more than your average local good girl, and mixing them is literally risking their lives through your own selfishness. Sure, both types could be infected. However, if you do the math and start adding up partners for a P4P employee, the partners of their partners, the partners of those partners of those partners.. you see the pattern? It’s like the biggest tree of life you can imagine with tons of branches and limbs and leaves. No one has the right to unknowingly expose someone who doesn’t participate in the P4P scene to those who do, no matter how much soap you use on Mr. Happy. The way I see it, if you’ve already made up your mind to play the scene then stay there and don’t put others at risk. If you later decide to operate outside of the scene take a break, get tested, keep taking a break, get tested again, and do so until a doctor tells you there’s no chance you can infect someone else from your last periods of play.

2. Local ‘good’ girls in Thailand really aren’t that different than their like aged western counterparts. In fact, they probably have less experience, less education, and are more likely to make poor choices.

I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve heard western men say “all Thai girls are the same when it comes to sexual promiscuity.” This is just plain wrong. It’s not at all unusual to find 25-35 year old Thai female virgins out there saving themselves for “Mr. Right.” Yes, it’s very possible that the lure of a boyfriend from a western country is enough to get them to behave out of character. Does this make them bad? If someone offered you the fame and riches of “the rich and famous” would you be tempted to compromise your principals to get there? This doesn’t make the girls bad or cheap, just normal. IF you decide to date local good girls then be as honest and upfront with them about your intentions as you would be if you were on your best behavior in your own country. This last piece of advice just might save your life.

Local good girls can be found in any locality in the world. Common sense? It would seem like it, but often westerners coming to Thailand and other Asian countries think they’ve been set loose in a candy store and behave differently than they would in their own country. We need to ask ourselves why we often have this double standard, and is it harmful? I’ve watched thousands upon thousands of young people away from home for the first time (in college, in the military, traveling the world, etc) who behave differently in someone else’s backyard than they do in their own. If I could have a dollar for all the times I’ve seen my fellow countrymen act like total asses while overseas I’d be a rich man.

With all that said I see nothing wrong with dating and having ‘normal’ relations with the local girls providing you’re not also in the P4P scene, you’ve been smart and consistent about getting yourself checked for the most common STDs / HIV / AIDS, and you make it a point to be 100% honest and upfront about your intentions. I see nothing wrong with it because this was my mode of operation during all my years in Asia, in many different Asian countries. I’ve had much fun, met great people, and learned much about the local cultures I’ve visited and lived in. I don’t think there was ever a period of longer than a few weeks when it wasn’t possible to go out with a different woman and that would be a conservative estimate. I’m convinced that “Mr. Joe Average” or even “Mr. Below Joe Average” can walk into a Robinsons, any of the malls, service centers, etc, and get a date for that night within 20 minutes or so.

The ease of this being what it is, and the willingness of the girls to be accommodating when treated well and honestly, is what’s kept me from the P4P scene for such a long time. There’s never been any compelling need, rush or not, to enter the P4P arena. Do you get rejected? Sure, sometimes. No sweat, just ask her friend standing next to her and who just listened to you get turned down if she’d like to go out. The chances are she’ll say yes. If you’re not confident enough in yourself to ask girls out, or handle rejection, then perhaps the P4P scene is right for you. Or perhaps you just like the quick transaction. The reason doesn’t matter, what matters is not mixing the two. Me? I’m a hunter and there is no greater hunt than the human animal. If I could I’d put my foot on the naked chest of each new conquest, raise my face to the moon, and let out the same blood curdling roar of the great apes that Tarzan does when making a great kill. Having actually tried that once I wouldn’t recommend it as it scares the girls to death!

If you’re coming for a vacation what should you do – P4P or dating the local girls? I’d say if you’re going to park your ass in a hotel on Sukhumvit and just want the ease of straight financial negotiations then by all means go for the P4P and enjoy yourself. Just remember the medical checks before / after, and that all the checks in the world are no substitute for quality protection while playing. On the other hand, if you’re going to be traveling throughout Thailand, Cambodia, or anywhere else in the area, then consider dating the locals while remembering to tell no stories, no fibs, and promise nothing you don’t intend to follow through on. I think it’s very possible to meet a salesgirl one day, and have her agree to travel with you through Thailand as a guide by the next day. Show her kindness, show her honesty, show her she can trust you to behave properly and she’ll travel with you and show you her country and you’ll have a great time.

True story: My wife talking to my mom when I wasn’t supposed to be listening: “BKKSW always respected me, always asked if he could do this or touch me, he was so polite and nice I couldn’t help but attack him the first chance I could make it seem “normal.” (insert my mom and wife giggling over my sex life here) And this from a Bangkok “good girl” who was a virgin when I met her. Just because they’re a virgin doesn’t mean they want to be, they just don’t want to give it up to a creep or someone they don’t think will make it a nice experience for them.

If Shania Twain says it’s so, then trust her it is:

Let me let you in on a secret

How to treat a woman right

If you're lookin' for a place in her heart

It ain't gonna happen overnight

First you gotta learn to listen

To understand her deepest thoughts

She needs to know you can be friends

Before she'll give you all she's got

If you start from the heart

You'll see love is gonna play it's part

If you wanna get to know her

Really get inside her mind

If you wanna move in closer

Take it slow, yeah take your time

You must start from the heart and then…

If you wanna touch her

Really wanna touch her

if you wanna touch her, ask!

A little physical attraction

Romantic, old-fashioned charm

And a lot of love and tenderness

Is gonna get you into her arms

If you start from the heart

You'll see love is gonna play it's part

If you wanna get to know her

Really get inside her mind

If you wanna move in closer

Take it slow, yeah take your time

You must start from the heart and then…

If you wanna touch her

Really wanna touch her

if you wanna touch her, ask!

Let me let you in on a secret

How to treat a woman right

If you're lookin' for a place in her heart

It ain't gonna happen overnight

If you wanna get to know her

Really get inside her mind

If you wanna move in closer

Take it slow, yeah take your time

You must start from the heart and then…

If you wanna touch her

Really wanna touch her

if you wanna touch her, ask!

Now.. I’m assuming with all of this talk about local girls that you’ve taken the time to get your teeth cleaned, dress decently, practice good hygiene, perhaps stay a bit fit? You don’t need to be an Adonis to find a local girl in Thailand, but you do need to be neat and clean and well mannered. I’ll go so far as to say these same things will help you score the better looking P4P girls at a lower price as well.

Moving past all this, why is it important to go over what should be the obvious? Because there are a lot of creeps out there who think they need to lie their way into a local good girl's bed and in my experience this type of guy is usually seriously lacking in self-esteem and confidence. I can’t count the number of times I’ve walked up in a store or restaurant and heard a westerner telling some serious lies to the interested all ears cute young salesgirl. What they don’t know is they’ll show the same interest if you’re telling them about the 82 Buick you just moved in your job as a used car salesman before you got on the plane to come here. In fact, you’d do better to not talk about yourself if not asked and instead ask about her. But, these guys come to the LOS, lie, cheat, promise the moon, and then end up breaking the hearts of some very nice girls. It’s all so unnecessary and reflects poorly on all of us (westerners) when it happens.

I don’t think it’s either right or wrong to date local ‘good’ girls, but you can make it right or wrong depending on your actions and words. Both Dana and Korski made great points, valid points, and both were correct on most of their points.. depending on who you are and how you take care of business. There are tons of great local ‘good’ girls in Thailand, many with a great education, great English skills, and so much “more” than what you’ll find the typical P4P girl to be. However, they do require special care and feeding and responsible behavior. More, you need to exhibit your best responsibility when it comes to diseases, and no.. I can’t say this too many times. Treat her right, be fair, be honest, and have a great time in the LOS whether it be a vacation or an extended stay…

Until next time..

Stickman's thoughts:

You got it so right when you said that good girls are most interested in guys who are "neat, clean and well mannered". It is so simple, but so true!