Readers' Submissions

A View From Another Perspective

  • Written by BKKSteve
  • June 21st, 2006
  • 10 min read


By BKKSW

Ok, finally I’m in the mood to talk about my chat with my doc and have thought about what she said and considering her background, etc, tried to put everything in perspective so I could intelligently talk about what we talked about. Now that I’ve taken care of all the small boring chores in my life like getting my bank account and drivers license and processing 30 gigs of raw files (from my camera) I’ve found myself with a few nights with nothing much to do.. at least until next week when I have to travel some more.

Here’s the scenario. My doc and I see each other (professionally in her office) once a month and have progressed way past the “how are you feeling” dialogue to the “how’s life, are you happy, do anything interesting this week” sort of talk. We’ve went from the 10-15 minute appointment to her closing her office door and locking it the last time and spending almost an entire hour just one on one chatting about Thailand and the subject matter I’m about to discuss.

I suspect she’s very much into learning about western men and what makes them tick and has even read Stick's site as a reference, how often I have no idea but some of her remarks paralleled some submissions very closely. She’s also acutely aware of how Thai women are viewed outside of Thailand and I get the feeling she takes this rather personally. Being single, a doctor, beautiful, and with English and world knowledge good enough to discuss most world events on an intellectual level I just can’t understand why she hasn’t been snatched up long before. I have suspicions. I’ve met a number of such women and they intimidate men. She’s too pretty, too smart, and the chances of someone manipulating her into any sort of submissive role in a relationship are incredibly small. Most men probably think they don’t have a chance with someone like this, or consider her more “western” than the submissive meek Asian women they’re really here to find. And.. there being a chance her expectations are pretty high as well. I haven’t at all missed the not so obvious questions about my education and employment though she worked them into the conversation easily and hardly without notice. This is one smart lady. Maybe you can start to understand why I feel so.. well like I wish I would have met her before..

This time we talked about Thai culture, sin sot, how Thai women manipulate men, what she’s witnessed, and of course without revealing names some of the scams these ladies have pulled on farang men. Because of confidentiality there are times when the baby couldn’t have been this particular farangs but she can’t tell the man exactly how far along the lady is or is bound by the woman’s wishes to give a false time line or to just not answer the question at all. Or how they hide past medical histories like being there for the fifth time for a K1 physical, past STDs, and other medical conditions the women want hidden from their men. Ethically she’s bound to maintain confidentiality but her personal ethics draw the line at HIV / AIDS and will disclose this to a partner in a discreet way despite the woman’s demands to the contrary. She might do this by “highly recommending” the man get HIV tested or the couple get tested together, or some other subtle way of getting the message across. Listen to your doctor if these things get brought up. There have been times men have brought katoeys in for K1 physicals fully believing them to be women. Ethically she’s bound to only disclose this in the sealed medical report and not to the man if the patient asks.

In her view sin sot is old-fashioned and not to even be considered for a bar girl, and really shouldn’t be considered at all for any relationship. She feels Thailand’s culture and history has outgrown this except for women from some of the very rural villages. Monthly financial maintenance to a poor family she looks on differently, if there is a real need then helping your new family is an honourable but not mandatory obligation. Some of the stories I’ve been told of the women bragging to her about what they’re getting from the farang in the way of sin sot, cars, plans for a house, etc, lead her to very much believe most Thai / Farang relationships are a planned financial investment in the future by the lady. They brag about the money, sin sot, etc to “justify” to the doc why they’re with this much older, much fatter, etc, man, and then clearly spell out that once their dream house and property is “in the hands” their plans to cause marital problems, be unfaithful, or somehow get out of the marriage so it can be done over and over again. She says this kind of talk is very common, thought she suspects many of the women find out later the men just don’t have the money they expected him to have and settle for a lesser lifestyle, or actually do fall in love. Though.. some of the girls back 4-5 times for K1 physicals are very rich with many assets from such adventures while playing the poor hungry girl to her new farang.

A bit more about Thai culture and daughters. Female children are thought of in rural areas and even in Bangkok proper as “investments” where a return on the investment is expected. Thai children are the parents' social security system, with the parents building in the need / obligation to financially care for the parents so they have a place to live, food to eat, and so on. I agree with this. I’d support my own parents if it was needed so why shouldn’t Thai people? However, the way they look at the females is different. They are raised, educated (if possible), clothed, and groomed to snare the richest man possible and bring the most money back to the family both in the way of sin sot, monthly allowances, and “face” or enhanced community position. Female children are property first, family second. The goal is for the daughter to bring in as much in the way of money as they can and that is that. Farangs are like hitting the lotto and in most cases will never be accepted as “family” because they’re simply not Thai, so many families and indeed entire communities will participate in elaborate charades to milk the farang for as much as the cow can give, all the while knowing the Thai lady will end up dumping him when she gets what she can and then moving on to another victim. This might be another farang, but eventually it will be another Thai man who the family and village will accept despite that her dealings / marriages / affairs with farangs lower her status as a person in the process.

I suppose this isn’t anything new.. but I’m going to add my personal advise to this. You’ve all heard many times if you want a relationship to work with a bar girl then get the girl out of the bar and back to living with you immediately. I’m going to modify this by saying get them away from their family for at least 2-3 years, the pressures the family can place on the daughter are huge and the culture just doesn’t give her a fair chance at having her own mind about this. The only way she’ll have her own mind is to be taken out of that environment, and that includes that once you get her back to the States, or wherever, that her friends not be ex-bgs and others of low moral standing.. but preferably couples that have been married for long periods of time, have kids, and obviously have happy and successful marriages. That way instead of getting advice on how to get what they can and run.. they’ll get advise that the marriage can be real and long lasting and it’s ok to be the wife of a farang long term. These older and wiser Thai women will advise them on how to become their own person and break the bonds their family holds over them.

And so the stories and examples continued. This led into discussions about how embarrassed she is for Thai women in general and how these women degrade her personally through building negative stereotypes and the such. She’s well versed in Thai politics, the rich doing their best to keep the poor poor.. and many of the silly rules Thais impose on farangs from subjects like land ownership to the need for visa runs.

We chatted on and on about these subjects for close to an hour and it was refreshing to hear a real down to earth educated Thai woman. I’m associated with more than a few hi-so Benz driving Thai ladies.. but ones with super size egos happily living off their family's money and their most immediate concern is the latest fashions, handbags, cars, and social functions. It was just really nice to talk with a Thai women with values, and education, and a realistic and honest take on her own society. And more, one who really wants to learn about farang men, both good and bad points, so that she can make good decisions just like we want to make good decisions.

I’ve long said that when I was single in Thailand I didn’t do the bar scene, but still dated and had fun with many Thai women. I went out with fellow students, sales girls, bank tellers, and normal working girls AND STILL had to sort out the ones who behaved like bar girls. Even if they’re not bar girls they’ve all heard the stories of the easy riches and watched the poor Isaan women with lots of cash and gold and all of a sudden their 5,000-10,000 salary doesn’t seem like very much and the temptation for these women to behave poorly and take you for money is very strong. After all, if uneducated rural Isaan girls can do it, then these university educated women think they can do it better. Debatable I know, but this is still in many of their minds. I would never look for a wife in the bar scene though I acknowledge that the occasional solid and great marriage come of such arrangements. But by the same token, I would never consider anyone for a wife who I hadn’t known and dated for a considerable period of time and knew really well.

It’s obvious to Thai women of all classes how farang men get used, who’s doing it, and many of them consider it themselves even if from hi-so backgrounds, the rewards are just too great. But it’s important to know that there are many fine moral and decent Thai women both poor and rich with true honest motivations. Your mission if you decide to accept it, is to sort them out and find the one for you. This would never be easy.. in fact the easier it seems probably the more perfect the scam. Expect to pay your dues, take a lot of time, and be careful out there…

Stickman's thoughts:

This doctor of yours sounds seriously cool. I loved what she said about the sin sot. She sounds really switched on. Use this as a description and you could auction off her phone number on EBay.