Stickman Readers' Submissions August 5th, 2005

What Farangs Do Get About Thai Women

Sometimes an article is posted on Stickman that is so odious, so fractious, so acrid that it simply cries out for retribution to be enacted. You might have guessed from the title this article that I am going to refer to an article submitted by Jayson
titled "What Farangs Don't Get About Thai Women". It's worth reading this first before pursuing my diatribe.

It was good to finally hear a Thai person, albeit a westernized American Thai, come out and say what is painfully evident, Thais as a general rule are a fairly bigoted lot. Anyone who has lived in the Kingdom (of stratification) will know
that the basis of Thai bigotry is founded partly on class (read poverty), partly on skin color (read black), area of origin (read Isaan) and gender (read female). I realize that this is not necessarily the view of the author but I do note that
in his entire article not once condemn these edicts of Thai society. He mentioned that we farangs might not like it but not once did he mention standing up to his Thai friends and defending higher ideals of equality. In his silence he intimated
agreement. The message of the article was loud and clear – All Isaan women are poor and cheap and ugly and have no hope in regular Thai society and therefore have to resort to dating Farang who themselves are generally perceived by Thai people
as whoremongers. The same comment might have been heard when referring to white women dating black men in the west some years back. Heck it might even be heard today coming from some ignorant redneck folks.

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Thais love to feel good about themselves and unfortunately, and contrary to the author's belief and also inherent in his article, this sometimes takes the form of putting others down to bring oneself up. Feeling low? Just prop yourself
up on someone else's misfortune. The air is cleaner up there, more purified so to speak.

The inside joke, of course, is that discriminating against dark girls leads one to encompass approximately 1/3 of theentire Thai population, this being the approximate total of Isaan. In reality though, the number is actually much larger.
To fully appreciate the plight of the average Thai woman and the mindset of the average Thai upper class snot you have to read Jayson's article carefully. If you are unfortunate enough to fall into one more of the untouchable categories then
you are likely to experience the short end of the Thai social generosity stick in your life. Untouchables include amongst others: Those hailing from the north eastern provinces such as Isaan; the poor; the uneducated; those of undefined background
(for example single parent); those of separate nationality such as Khmer or Burmese; the cross-eyed; the partially deaf; the maimed; the dyslexic or the otherwise inadequate. In fact you can be almost anyone other than a middle class Thai lady
or above who comes from a stable home and has all physical faculties. Mental faculties don't matter, its appearance, not substance that counts in Thailand. At a guess probably less than 10% of the Thai population fit the acceptable bracket.
Don't fit into this 10%, bad luck, discrimination in every aspect of life is your reward. Is it any reason therefore many clever, ambitious, Thai women with some dignity left are looking to greener pastures?

I once knew a nice Isaan woman. Let's call her Pim or Nit or whatever you want. By chance she was light skinned and well educated however she was still discriminated against wherever she went because to a Thai it was obvious she was
from Ubon something or other. Nit had to resort to dating a Farang man to get any kind of respect. This fact she confided in me only after we had been friends on the internet for many months, a faceless admission (we only met months later as friends).
Perhaps her goals included money, I don't know however I would find it unlikely as she came from a reasonable background, both parents were teachers, one a professor and was a woman of some means. As Jayson pointed out, money is a factor
for all women, it represents stability, opportunity and the capacity to provide for a family, the question is, is it a primary factor? Does anyone ever know for sure what a person's primary motivating force is? I wonder for how many Thai
couples is money a primary factor in the relationship? I've seen dog ugly Thai men, all pockmarked and fat and rude and arrogant, dating gorgeous tall light skinned beauties. What are other Thais thinking? Is it Lucky bastard, he deserves
her for being such an upstanding Gangsta member of Thai society. But what if that were a westerner? Then we get the Jayson reaction. Hey that hookers with him for money, cant be anything else! What a horrible couple.

I came into contact some years back, much to my dismay, with a rather unsavory Thai lady, lets call her Yuk or Poo or something else disdainful. Her gig was dating rich Thai Chinese men of either Thai or American citizenship and then screwing
them of every last satang while carrying on with other similar men behind their backs. She used complex blackmail scams to achieve this. Just couldn't get enough money this girl. Got to admire someone who is good at their job and loves their
work. Sound familiar? Now here's the catch. This girl was a light skinned, well to do and an apparently conservative, influential Thai lady of university education and of age around late 28. How does this woman fit into the Jayson paradigm?
Oh sorry, my mistake, perhaps she doesn't?

Herein lies the conundrum. Not all Thai women dating westerners are after money or would be considered ugly by Thai men and not all women dating Thai men are doing so under purely altruistic motives. Not all women from Isaan are ugly and
whores and not all boofy haired, skin whitening agent applied, middle aged Thai matrons are wholesome either. In fact the relative proportions of good and evil are probably the same in each community. It's the Thai simple minded cosmetic
stereotyping espoused by Jayson that make them so. Sounds familiar doesn't it. That's because it was five centuries ago that Shakespeare wrote it down. Nothing is good or evil but thinking makes it so.

I would like to take a short break to impart my own experience. You might expect from my stance on this issue that I am with a lovely Isaan lady. Life didn't turn out that way. I was fortunate, but no more so than had it been an Isaan
lady, to fall in love with a half Thai, Chinese woman from asingle parent background and Bangkok origin. She was putting herself through university working sales promotion jobs and doing occasional film work. She had a strict upbringing and had
never seen the inside of a naughty bar and even today and much to my dismay seems to have little interest in doing so. Interestingly her own ¡spec¡ (male ideal) was actually a light skinned Thai man, preferably part Chinese. I met her
at a party, I snatched her up (after some courtship time)! The real pinch is that my Thai is hopeless. It's crap! It's enough to struggle through a Thai dinner party but put me in a political debate and I'm lost. To the average
Thai I must sound like some redneck southern twit fresh out of the Missouri swamplands. How Yall doin. Yall feeling good today? I would happily say in my appalling Thai. Did it affect my chances with a nice Thai babe? Not a smidgeon. My wife couldn't
give a toss. She prefers to speak English (no doubt because my Thai is so crap) and finds my hokey Thai a source of amusement or worse, cute! I have better things to do than inanely learn Thai from outside Thailand. My wife saves well. We don't
send her mother money but we do nice things for her mother and like to have Mae Yae to stay as long as she wants. I'ts great to have an extended family under one roof. My wife cares for the baby, studies hard, as far as I know she is very
faithful and dedicated, although the baby does look like the milkman it's probably just a coincidence. Why did she choose a farang? Does this fit the Jayson paradigm? In fact we don't fit this narrow minded Thai clique concept of a Thai
Farang couple but I'm sure that if Jayson saw us he would think Whore and John. Not so easy to fork off a quick bigoted one size fits all theory is it?

One comment that irks me and that Thais often quip around my wife and I is that ¡t's good to see a farang with a nice Thai girl for a change. WTF!… what does that mean?? In actual fact I have known some lovely Isaan ladies from better backgrounds
than my wife, who educated themselves to masters level (my wife is still struggling to obtain her degree from under the weight of baby diapers), taught themselves English (not in bars but through school, it shows, bar English is generally better)
ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS, unless of course you are talking about the same sort of shit you talk to bargirls withStick> but can't get respect from Thai men and so pursue westerners. One beautiful, quite dark lady I
know quite well and who has a masters degree and hails from a good background has a western boyfriend, and I can state with 100% certainty that this girl's primary objective is not money. How do I know this? Because her long term farang boyfriend
has zero all cash. Of course when she and her BF go out they don't often hear a nice comment except from other Farang, no no, not in Thailand. They do however get the occasional stare or negative comment. Why is she with him if she has to
put up with all this Jayson style Thai bigoted crap? I guess because he respects her and loves her and they get along very well.

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So then why do some Farangs so often get tagged with dubious women who want
nothing more than to bonk all of Khun Farang's friends and take Khun Farang's entire asset base down to the last satang? Does it have to do with the
girl's skin color, does it have to do with farm girl education? Is it because broken-hearted Johns are the only people who can be bothered to post on websites such as Stickman? Jayson would have you believe it's because only money grabbing
dark skinned whores that would dare touch a Farang. I again have a different theory. Khun Farang often comes to Thailand on a short holiday and picks up the first woman of dubious virtue he finds in the first bar he finds himself pissed in. That's
right, Khun Farangs female selection back home is so limited that Khun Farang drops his pants and heart to the first, second or tenth exotic Asian bar seat warming princess he sees. Either this or he is struggling to go between bars with his heart
and lung machine and takes up the first girl who offers to carry his colostomy bag. In any case Thailand presents a large supply of disenfranchised and disillusioned Thai women who are readily available to date Khun Farang for one reason or another.
And why are these girls in western bars typically Isaan? Because they find it so hard to get acceptance in the wealth belt of Thai society. They are pegged with bigoted preconceptions before they even leave home to the first job interview. They
cant work in Thai bars because Thai bars are all filled up with tall, light skinned girls of dubious virtue and hailing from middle class backgrounds and lying to their Thai hi-so boyfriends that they are reading the latest inane picture book
comic at their friend's house (don't believe me – walk into one and see for yourself). And why are these girls out for what they can get? Because they are hookers, it's their frickin job, duh!! It might be a short or long term job
but its their job. Income is the indicator of success. They screw for cash and the price is never fixed, it's always as much as they can get. Sometimes you're going to be a long term John, sometimes a short term quick take John. Either
way you're the John and she's the hooker. Date a white skinned, tall, middle class Thai hooker and you will find the same greed as her darker Isaan colleague but possibly veiled behind a university education instead of a grade 6 farm
girl education because she finds it easier to get sponsors to pay the remote study Chula or Ramkhaemhaeng bills. Date a nice skinny, dark, short, fat, tall, light regular Thai girl and you will quit possibly find honest virtues. The problem, as
Jayson so adequately expressed, is that other Thais won't see the honest virtues in the short dark girl and quite possibly any girl walking along side a Khun Farang, no matter how strong the qualities of the relationship or how nice the girl.
It doesn't matter if you met in a bar or at a GreenPeace save the whale convention. It doesn't matter if she donates blood 3 times a month, cares for orphans and makes a living touting carbon fuel reduction technology. To Jayson and
his mates she's still tarnished with the same brush because you're a farang and she's a Thai and therefore you're a whoremonger and she's a hooker after your wallet. The concept that she might actually want to be with
you is anathema to people like Jayson. In order to cope with his own inadequacies he has to believe in the Whore John theory. How do you win? Under Jayson's rules you can't so don't bother, just enjoy!

What of girls from outside the bars interested in westerners? I'm afraid it's the good, the bad and the ugly, just like any other place. Obviously being Khun Farang and being perceived to have money makes you a target for less scrupulous
vixens but a little common sense and caution can manage this risk. How did I do it? Besides being particularly witty and good looking (errrm¡K ok not)? I just acted as though I have very little wealth, but not so little that I couldn't
provide a nice life for my lady. It's not wise to appear too poor and appear unable to cope financially with life or unable to compete in society but its likewise not wise to spray cash around like you would with your mates in Asoke or you
might raise expectations a little too high and attract the wrong (or right depending on the evening) sort of lady. No need to stop shaving, dress down, play guitar and sing Bob Dillon protest songs in the street with a hat in front of you. These
sort of shenanigans don't impress Thai ladies anyway. It does however pay to not go overboard with gifts and outings but at the same time being careful not to be too tight with cash or be seen to act in an uncaring manner. It is Thailand
after all and a lady likes to feel special and be spoilt from time to time.

Jayson makes some valid comments, such as watching out for money grabbing whores, but unfortunately they get lost in the mire of bigotry that is his article. Jayson's article propagates the same narrow minded high-so Thai mindset that
appearance is everything and substance counts for nothing. If you believe a word of Jason's article you would think your dream girl is a light skinned, well bred Thai girl with hello kitty intellectual fortitude and a submissive temperament.
A girl straight out of a Japanese Porno or Manga who dresses in pink cashmere cardigans and knee high white boots and carries a Doesy the Red Reindeer Emporium backpack and constantly looks lost, embarrassed or otherwise dumbfounded. A girl who
is scared to approach a man and who only accepts dates from try hard, light skinned, rich Thai guys. By a happy correlation this specification no doubt matches¡K ummm, would it be Jayson's? Jayson must be feeling pretty spiffy about
all this. That, my friends, is the essence of the Jayson's article, to prop up Jayson's ego on the countless inadequate bodies of his fellow countrywomen and the fallen ego's of those Farang who let themselves feel inadequate for
dating women that just don't match up to Jayson's little clique of friend's expectations.

Let me pose two last questions.

Why is it that so many gorgeous little Thai ladies are going under the knife these days and applying cosmetic skin whitening products? Is it because they like wearing cheap silicon implants jutting inappropriately from their face? Do they
enjoy a reduced sense of smell and splotchy brown, white skin? Or, as I suspect, is it because they feel as though they don't measure up to the idealized expectations of people like Jayson and his mates?

Now the second question and the clincher. If Jayson's article contains all the answers to life and Jayson captures the mindset of the good Thai girl so perfectly then why is it that my wife's normal, light skinned, happy, adjusted,
university educated, middle class Thai friends are often asking my wife whether they can meet my friends when next we are in Thailand? Is it so that they too can be viewed as hookers by Jayson and his clique as they innocently walk along side
their farang boyfriend? Demand for Farang must be pretty high if a nice Thai woman is willing to put up with the likes of Jayson and his mates snickering and talking and thinking she's a whore whenever she steps out of the house with a Farang.
And do you know what irks these girls the most? It's that they don't think they stand much of a chance because they think Farang men only like girls with dark skin! So they find it easier to prop themselves up by bringing their darker
cousins down.

Now why would someone like Jayson find it easier to view the world in such black and white terms than to look more deeply at the issues? If you know people well enough you will find the answers. The truth can hurt (but can set you free) and
the truth is deep down, in places Thai girls don't like to talk about at parties, many dream of dating Farang and what separates the one by your side from the others is that she has the courage to defy the narrow mindset of her times.. or
is a hooker, but we've already covered that one. And that's exactly what put the smirk on my face reading Jayson's article. I've known many a so called Thai good girl, perceived by all and sundry as the archetypal and essential
hi-so light skinned Thai man accessory, fall over herself trying to get a hidden snog with a farang. And that's what people like Jayson and his self smug band of cohorts don't know that many of us do and that's what these girls
will never tell them!

My wife summed up this mindset best when she said that a Thai man will not date a woman who he knows has been with a farang no matter what class she is. I assume she was not referring to the pimp like behavior of some lazy scoundrels who
stay at home drinking Saeng Som while their women whore. In any case, bigotry plain and simple and trying to sugar coat it under any other term is like trying to get a whore to pay you for your services! And doesn't Thai law directly support
these concepts? Ever tried owing anything in Thailand as a farang spouse? Heck even your wife gets diminished ownership laws when she marries a Farang, at least with your money. Ever tried being recognized as a citizen? Be gullible enough to pay
10 million baht into a dodgy government building fund and you might reluctantly be granted permanent (or temporary) residency but don't hope for too much. Pay another 2 million into one of the CEO's side ventures and you may be granted
three month visas and free entry to overpriced golf clubs for the white and famous, provided you pass certain character references which no doubt include not liaising with the dark and infamous. But don't go thinking that just because you
have married one of the ladies of the Kingdom that it actually counts for anything. Stick's commented that Jayson's article was compulsory reading for Farangs who spend time with Thai women. It is, for anyone wanting to understand the
mindset of Thai upper class, narrow minded bigotry towards such a horrendous felony. Do I think its essential reading for making decisions in my life? Yea right, it rates just below what brand of toothpaste I use.

Boys, I say go for it. Hoe into these unwanted Thai women, the refuse, the discarded, the High Sos and the Lo Sos. The reasons they are unwanted are owing to the trivial bigotry espoused by a small handful of feudal minded Thai wealth owners.
If a women is available, out there wanting, finding it hard to get local lads, if she prefers the freedom that comes from dating farang, or if she simply wants to experiment or walk the wild side, then I say go for it!! Blow me senseless, its
no wonder Thailand is such an open playing field. With so many Thai girls not meeting the correct Thai criteria, Isaan girls, girls with single parents, uneducated girls, girls who cant afford or don't want the latest hello kitty key ring,
girls who make the horrible sin of wanting to practice English with someone other than their local Uzbekistan English teacher, half Thais, dark Thais, girls who wear dresses deemed to short or don't carry Emporium plastic bags into work (before
the Emporium even opens), Hill Tribe girls, girls who hang out in bars, girls who are rebellious, the lame, the disenfranchised, the blind, deaf and dumb, the Helen Keller's of the Thai world, girls who have the intellectual fortitude to
dump those Thai picture book comics and read some serious literature, girls who watch western movies, the tattooed, the pierced, the self mutilated, girls who like to travel, and perhaps even amongst all of them. A nice girl who just wants to
meet a nice guy who wont judge her every step of the way.

The only way to change attitudes is to get out there and be yourself. Giddy Up Paradise! Let others feel envy, enjoy your happiness and carefree attitudes! Enjoy life.

Stickman's thoughts:

I maintain that the Thais understand Thai society better than farangs…

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