Stickman Readers' Submissions July 14th, 2004

Originally Western Women Vs Thai Women (Part 1)

I would really like to say a few or more than a few words on the generalised differences I have seen that exist between these two "sections" of society. It goes without repeatedly saying that these are generalisations but next to each observation
I have given a supporting example:

Why can this guy comment?

He Clinic Bangkok

First, some facts about me so the usual tirade of assumptious criticisms aren't thrown in my direction. I am well read, university educated (although that in my opinion is not a pre-requisite for intellect), an owner of an international
business, have a superb family who are supportive of my choices and generally am very happy with my lot in life. I am very happy in my Thai / Farang relationship. I don't walk around any more scared about the relationship failing because
it is a Thai / Farang relationship more than I would if I had a Western relationship. My insecurities and needs together with my ambition for a family remain the same although mature as I get older.

When I lived in England and around Europe I dated a French girl, Swedes, an Iraqi girl, a Muslim Moroccan girl, Norwegians, a Muslim Algerian girl and English, one Scottish and one Irish girls over the course of school, University and early
professional life. I am a lawyer. I consider myself to be open minded in respect of cultures so feel that this is why I have benefited from culturally varied relationships. I have never "targeted" a race or religion as a favourable one
for dating purposes.

Out of all of those relationships, my Thai relationship has been the most rewarding. I cannot predict if it will last forever, but I will make every effort to make it last – which is something a lot of people don't bother with.

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I believe in monogamy because of the trust and protection it affords the 2 people enveloped by it. I have broken the rules once and regretted it more than anything else I have ever done. I don't feel less of a man for wanting to stay
faithful to 1 person and I don't believe in any crud about how men need to have more than one partner. Cheating really is cheating your own brain which should recognise what is fundamentally right in civilised human society and what is wrong.
Good luck to the playboys – I respect the genuine playboys and playgirls – because they are "genuine" in my eyes if they admit to all and sundry that they are in this life to "play" and not to hurt people they pretend to love.

Originally Western Women

I have qualified the title deliberately because a lot of Thai women have become partially westernised or at least adopt some Western ways such as dress and language. I simply don't accept that Thai women have become Western. If you live
in Thailand you know pretty quickly that Farang will always be seen as different even if there is no malice intended in the thought. Thai women see themselves as "Thai" and don't want to be Western. They enjoy some of the trappings
of Western consumerism which is a completely different thing than being Western.

Western Women in my analysis could be living anywhere but are from the West. My experiences derive mostly from Europe where I have lived and dated Europeans.

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1a. Western Women want to prove that they fit a Western profile

Farang women spend their time at school generally suppressed by European society with English women being the most suppressed. I couldn't believe the Victorian approach taken by the headmistress of the girls grammar school which was
5 minutes away from my boys school. The girls there used to experiment with boys by attending parties and getting drunk. Then they would spend their weeks giggling about what they had gotten up to and which boys had a nice car and which boys were
handsome and which boys were rich.

Western women are not immune to the proclivities of materialism. From a very early age, western women are preened and groomed not only by their parents (as some parents don't care) but by the media – magazines, Hollywood trash movies
and celebrity culture. This is all centred around being "beautiful", "rich" and "successful" in that order. Not being successful is ok as many celebrities who are famous without actually doing anything have proved.

Western women aspire to these examples set by society. They compete at out-of-town shopping centres such as Bluewater (a huge complex in the South East of London) and in the cities – London – Covent Garden, Knightsbridge, Chelsea and so on.
Their sense of worth is enhanced by the bags they carry and the image they project. The want to exude success even if they don't have any. There are rich hi-so girls who just do lunch and talk about their fiance's weaknesses and strengths
and stock market portfolio. There are Essex girls and Kentish girls who want to have the latest Luis Vitton handbags and Burberry hats. They are almost following the low gangster consumerism culture depicted in the R n B and Rap music that many
of these girls admire. How ironic that many of the stars of these videos are involved in prostitution as pimps or as porn movie stars and so on.

Best selling magazines include Now, Hello, Cosmopolitan and other trashy shyte that couldn't entertain even the most mundane brain unless 80% of the mind was motivated by wealth and accumulation. Hi-so, trailer trash and middle class
suburbanites can all be seen reading these publications. Guardian woolies compete as to who has the most expensive organic product in their fridge and how spending more means saving the world a little bit more but won't put their hand in
their pockets to buy their colleagues a drink. Blue capital C conservatives throw disdain on low class consumerism and branding but when it comes to golf, tennis, polo, whisky, wine and cigars all cow-tow to the same low-class material competition.
New labour – is Posh and Beckham extra-ordinaire.

Western women subscribe to all of this – and denial is the first sign of addiction. They want leather boots, handbags, plasma TVs and little "birds" sports cars, they want membership at a so called exclusive gym which they will
use as a mini-restaurant and they don't want to be embroiled in "committed" relationships. They will incessantly moan about men "wanting" commitment but then find a bastard and moan he doesn't want to know.

Western women are guilty of wanting to fit a profile. They want to be rich, successful in their chosen field be it teaching, sport, banking whatever. Nurses and some other noble professions are the only exceptions that spring to mind.

They want to have nice holidays and they don't want to be challenged. They don't want to feel that any other part of the world has women that have better qualities than them. Unfortunately for them, Thai women possess many qualities
which totally obliterate the culture that 75 to 80% of Western Women subscribe to.

1b. Thai women mix Western culture with Eastern culture and come out shining

Thai women read popular magazines too. They also watch soap operas (a lot if allowed to) and indulge in celebrity spotting. The difference is, they don't get upset if they can't have everything their favourite soap opera star on
Channel 3 has. Having a boyfriend with a nice car is a bonus – but not a pre-requisite unless she is in the 10% exceptions who just want money and possessions. Thai women don't actually care if their boyfriend has a moped, a pick up truck
or just uses motorbike taxis. That is evidenced by Thai women often working but still dating Thai men with nothing. It is evidenced by Thai women who have a choice between a rich businessman sending them money and a poorer but younger man forging
a life with them in Thailand – choosing the latter…

Thai women don't expect to live in a 3 to 5 bedroomed palace. It is not their ultimate goal in life. They see it as an example of how other people live – but unless raised in a wealthy family have never experienced it so don't feel
that it is necessary for their life. Again an added bonus. This is evidenced by Thai women visiting Europe with their farang boyfriends and being completely unimpressed by the wealth over there. Visiting shopping centres but actually preferring
the fashion of Singapore, Italy and Bangkok – not the brash American / Italian in your face fashion.

Thai women value emotional needs over and above material gain. This doesn't mean they will only date poor people or shy away from rich people. It means that they will assess who is going to make them feel happy – and how. Will the poor
guy promise the world and deliver gambling, cheating, drinking and violence. Will the rich(er) guy promise quite a lot and deliver on most of it. Will the poor guy promise not a lot but keep all of his promises until he dies. These are more human
assessments that the typical questions that Western women will trot out "what do you do?" "where were you born" "what do your parents do". What a bunch of pointless questions at the beginning of a relationship! How
about – what is important to you? Do you believe in family values? Do you ever want children? Will you support your partner if they need help? Have you any kind of spiritual value / culture?

Thai women are simply more beautiful than most Western women (in my and many others eyes). They can wear short pants and a lazy t-shirt but the smile and warmth comes burning through. Western women will spend hours trying to perfect a contrived
"casual" look – wearing some sports pants and trainers / sneakers and a baseball cap a la Posh Spice. Thai women will wear sports pants and look like supermodels before they have even set their hair straight. They don't need to
try and therefore don't spend their thinking time trying.

Thai women use beauty shops like Western women use local shops to buy Mars bars and other confectionary. Thai women pop in and have their nails and hair made up before they attend any kind of social event. Western women don't see the
point and have a "take me as I am even if I look slovenly" attitude.

Thai women are not generally fat and after bearing children don't generally become fat.

Thai women all seem, with the exception of blocky shoes with block heels (which I have a personal distaste of), wear pretty shoes and accessories. Thai students wear pretty shoes, kitten heels and preen their hair. Thai young professionals
were impeccable office wear and are never seen in a bar, sweating profusely hurling abuse at western men about some inane and pathetic feminist point arising from ladette culture. "Arrrrrgh look at him, hez a minga" "OOOOOOOh look
at him, I wouldn't arf mind getting a grab at his meat (wink wink)". I have seen western women after a few bottles of wine in a city bar degrade themselves beyond belief and often hear anecdotes of how married women have slept with a
colleague, boss or just some random in a bar. Thai women don't do that.

2. Western Women don't know how to look after a man, Thai women do

Any opinion from a man is NOT subjective on this point. It can't be prejudiced or biased or wrong. ONLY a MAN can tell a woman what makes him happy and likewise only a WOMAN can tell a MAN what makes her happy.

Western women don't acknowledge that as a valid point or a relevant point. They simply don't care what a man wants. They will just give as much emotional commitment, financial commitment and support as they want to. They don't think about what they OUGHT to give to make the relationship work.

Western men are crying out for an opportunity to GIVE. What they don't want is to be belittled for WANTING to give. There is now a pathetic politic of who should pay for a meal and who should pay for this and who should open the door for someone else. Men want to appear strong and worthy – even if they aren't world wide wrestling federation types or capable of throwing a punch. Western women don't let men express their masculinity.

Thai women will let their men give and will MAKE them feel special about giving. There will no matter what the gift, always be a smile even if the gift is not of taste of unwanted. Thai women find it difficult to throw a gift back into the giver's face. Thai women will be elated if you hold a door open for them, open the wine, drive them to the restaurant and not let them drive (even if it is on the grounds of safety), buy them a gift, introduce them to your mates and invite them to social events EVEN football match events – they would actually prefer to BE with you than NOT. That is "looking after" you. Some men find this claustrophobic – everyone has a different taste, but the actual principle and driver underlying it all is a kindness not present in Western women. It has been sucked out of western women and washed into their designer Calvin Kein jeans.

3. Thai women don't have any qualms about making love and "release" in a close intimate environment

Forget all the crap and ludicrous distinctions between bar girls, non-bar girls and "family" Thai girls and how long it takes to get each girl to love you or to have sex with you or to make love to you whatever it may be. I am not belittling individuals' experiences with different Thai girls – just pointing out that the common elements are sometimes more important than the differences.

After the barriers between the 2 individuals have been broken down, by a series of dates and meeting the family, by a customer handing over cash to a bar girl, by a man persuading a woman that it is simply a good idea or vice versa – a special thing happens. A Thai woman will make love in a way that is selfless and giving. Aside from being exquisitely beautiful – which helps a man in any sexual situation, Thai women have a sensuality that simply eludes western women. It doesn't mean that Thai women are "good at sex". It means that they are good at sharing ANY experience and ensuring that both people enjoy it. You can tell a Thai woman what you like in the bedroom – and you will probably get it. If you like high heels in the bedroom – you will get high heels almost every time, if you like stockings – ditto.

Western women have more hang ups about sex than the East. Japan was historically known for Geishas and girls who "pillowed" without GUILT. Those girls were honoured and held up in high regard. Promiscuous girls were not looked down upon.

Western women now, as usual, want their cake and to eat it. They don't want to be persecuted for being "promiscuous" and having many partners before getting married. They don't want to be called 'sluts' and 'slags' for having casual relationships. However, if they visit the East – they see casual relationships and brand all Asian women as "whores" or "girls with low moral values". How perverse – surely that is what Western women want the freedom to do. If a western woman wants to have sex and then asks for some money to go and buy a pair of Gucci shoes- why shouldn't she. The man can say no and never see her again if he thinks this is morally bankrupt.

Western women don't want to get to know women in Thailand who are not involved in prostitution. It makes them extremely uncomfortable to think that they might be bettered in all respects including moral values. Western women want to categorise Thai women into "prostitutes" or "farmer peasant uneducated girls". They ignore the educated successful women categories. I have attended many parties where the western women have simply shunned the Thai women at the party and made no attempt to interact. In the rare cases where a Western woman does attempt to engage her Thai counterpart and discovers that the woman is intelligent, has a good job and strong family values – they are appalled and themselves and want to run a mile – that is very clear. They would love that all Thai women were easy to not be true -because all the men in the West wouldn't be spending their holiday money on flying out to Asia and Thailand to get a glimpse of what they really want. There are prostitutes in Europe. Why do men who use prostitutes spend the air fare on coming to Thailand? It can't be cheaper for them – and they all write about giving gifts and presents and sending money to families and so on. I am sure the prostitutes in Kings Cross and in the Bronx don't get that kind of treatment – why is that?

4. Thai women have strong family values and therefore make good companions for forging a family

Much criticism is spread around about how Thai (women in particular) are subject to the whims and needs of their parents and therefore suffer from a lack of independence. Mothers and fathers look the other way while their daughters work in bars and send money back home blah de blah. That is a small proportion of a large population. Even within that small proportion, Thai women are still welcomed home, looked after and provided with assistance should hard times befall them. If they have sons or daughters, often their parents will do the childcare part to assist them with their life. In the larger population of non-prostitutes, the family support is just as strong. Families live together through CHOICE. Rich Thais actually build houses for their parents to live with them. That is seen as successful. Poor Thais share their space and there is no question of "you are on your own now I am grown up mum and dad".

When starting a family, a man wants to think that the family will be a happy one. He wants his children to respect him and their mum. He wants the mum to provide love, gentleness and kindness to his children. He wants to grow up knowing that his children want to look after their parents in old age even if they don't have to because everyone is well enough off to not worry about money. He wants to know that when there is a quarrel between children and father or mother that the adults will support each other first and not quarrel about who is the most "important" parent. He wants to know that the woman is not going to ditch him because he doesn't look like Brad Pitt anymore – or because he has a mid-life belly after more than a few social beers. He doesn't want to "LOSE FACE" in front of other people – lose face being his western idea of losing face which does exist despite everyone banging on about how Asians don't like to lose face.

That's enough for now. I would love to hear from any Western women who have something more meaningful than the usual banter between them and western men who frequent bars and use bar girls. What about a proper debate as to why they fail to live up to the needs of men who come from the same society as them?

Stickman's thoughts:

Mmmm…. I really like your style, and I can't comment on Western women at all, but I think your glowing analysis of Thai women is just a bit much… Many are just as you describe, but just as many are not, at least in my experience.

nana plaza