Stickman Readers' Submissions February 14th, 2004

Thai vs. Western Women and Bargirls vs. Non-Prostitutes

The debate about whether Thai women are better than farang women seems to continue despite the obvious contradiction. Have you noticed that the same men that are so adamant in Thai women being better than their cold, fat, ugly Western counterparts are also the ones frustrated by the Thai women being manipulative, “smiling assassins” who don’t return the genuine affection the men claim they give them? Yes, it’s true I am talking about a group of men and not a particular person. However, ask yourself if you believe that Thai women are the “good ones” compared to farang or Western women? If so, do you also believe that Thai women often cannot be trusted, are money hungry, and place you in second/third/fourth place compared to her face, family, and other Thais? Too often, the same guys that deride farang or Western women in preference of Thai girls will simultaneously be cynical about Thai women. While it may be a matter of degrees, many such dual advocates seem to operate as if each belief was only true independently while the other magically appears when it suits them! When angry at Western women, compare the sweet Thai girls to the farang feminazis. When the Thai girlfriend pisses you off, talk about their shortcomings compared to the Western educated females.

In this debate, the men are often sex tourists and sexpats, but they can include men who date non-prostitute Thais. In the same fashion, most of the Thai women involved seem to be bargirls, freelancers, or women that are engaging in relationships for money. However, it can and often does include “good Thai girls”, according to the men who post the stories.

He Clinic Bangkok

There is also another ongoing debate about whether a farang’s relationship with a Thai can work and if the odds are any worse than that with a Western or farang woman. Specifically, the debate is concerning farang sex tourists and Thai hookers, and if they have worse, the same, or even better odds than a farang (or Westerner) with a farang (or Western) woman.

I believe the answers to these two questions are actually intimately related. I don’t believe a relationship with a Thai woman is necessarily “better”, though experience has shown it is clearly “different” than a relationship with a Western woman. It is also clear the comparison should be with a Western woman, whatever her race/nationality, and not a farang woman per se. It is the culture that makes a heterosexual love affair intrinsically different between a Thai (by culture, whether she is actually Thai, Thai Chinese, or Thai Indian) and a Westerner in the personal dynamics. It is only the physical uniqueness that is affected by the genetic impact of race.

It is this difference that makes a unique romantic experience with a Thai woman so exciting for many farang or Western men. It is this uniqueness that makes many Western men conclude Thais are better BECAUSE they are so different than what these men have known all their lives in relationships with women. What would happen if a Thai man, who experienced relationships with Thai women all his life, suddenly experienced a relationship with a Western cultured woman? Well, it happens, and they seem just as obsessed with farang women for the same reasons…it’s the new and different romantic experience that gets them excited, not that farang women are any better.

CBD bangkok

How does this relate to the debate about if a relationship with a Thai prostitute has better odds than a relationship with a normal Western woman? Well, the successful relationships (between farang guys and Thai hookers) is driven by the motivation of one or both parties due to various factors, including the uniqueness felt in the relationship which makes him/her want to make it work. The farang guy is excited by his unique teeruk and how much “better” he thinks she is compared to the boring farang (actually Western) women he’s been used to and built up a bunch of frustrations against over his life. She is excited by this relatively wealthy, exotic, and educated farang who, by association, brings her face, money, and status.

I definitely believe that the odds are WORSE for a Western guy who undergoes a relationship with a prostitute compared to a non-prostitute. While many arguments have been made for why Thai prostitutes are different than hookers in the rest of the world, I don’t believe those are valid excuses. On the contrary, I’d think most would suspect those who make such arguments have huge personal desires to believe in such an exception, and that the arguments are not objectively founded.

If you want to throw in culture, the odds are still worse for a relationship with a any Thai, including a Thai bargirl, as compared to a Western woman, simply because of the difficulties of intercultural relationships..

The relationship between these two debates (the uniqueness, but not better, nature of Thai women) does not improve the odds of a relationship with either a Thai or Western woman. It just makes it different. If anything, a cross-cultural relationship increases risks, though it could be argued the excitement and potential complimentary nature of the intercultural interaction “could” result in a positive coupling.

wonderland clinic

So when you strip out this cultural aspect (the Thai vs. Western culture), it is really a question of the odds of a relationship working out between a sex tourist and a hooker, regardless of who is Thai or farang or Western. At this point, I think the answer is obvious to most that the odds could only fall against a customer/hooker relationship when compared to a non-customer/non-hooker relationship.

In what I’ve seen, the “success stories” between those sex tourists and bargirls seems to both claim a farang/bargirl relationship can work, while at the same time claiming they are different —- this usually entails a claim that she now sees him as a lover (not a sex tourist) and he sees her as a Thai girl (not a bargirl). You can’t have it both ways. It is either a customer keeping a whore as a girlfriend/fiancé/wife, or it is two people in a relationship outside of a prostitution arrangement, whatever their occupation (hooker) or interests (whoremonger) might be.

Most exceptions are not exceptions at all. I believe they are misclassifications of normal relationships, between a whoremonger and a whore who formed or took their relationship outside of the prostitution they both participated or still participate in. They have a functioning relationship that has lasted for some period of time, because of two possibilities. Possibility one is that they were a whore and whoremonger, but their relationship was never a pay-for-play relationship. Possibility two is that they managed, as part of a very small minority of couples, to actually move from a prostitution-based relationship to a real romantic coupling. Alternative two requires both the sex tourist and the hooker to genuinely and intentionally see each other as more than a customer (source of money) and a sex provider. This seems obvious but as surely as many genuine relationships are classified as a “successful farang/bargirl relationship”, many farang/bargirl relationships are misclassified by hopeful sex tourists as genuine relationships. It is easier to start out in possibility one than to transition into possibility two, since there are many difficulties in a customer and a bargirl forgetting how they first met if they were first exchanging money for sex. The girl will still want the money. They guy will find it hard to trust that she isn’t just playing the role of girlfriend. The experiences of punters who have failed, as well as those that have succeeded in a relationship, can attest to this reality.

There are the real exceptions, which in the scheme of my theory here would actually be a sex tourist and a hooker living happily together in those roles. They do exist. If a guy can accept his woman is paid to be there, as both a sexual and emotional prostitute, and the girl is willing to give up (or realistically pretend she has given up) a real relationship with another man (or woman), then why wouldn’t it work out?

The problem here is that most men and women seek at least emotional, if not physical, monogamy, once they’ve gotten emotionally attached to another person romantically. Another problem is that if it’s strictly a sexual exchange, the man will usually get tired of the Thai hooker and move on. From experience, most men don’t stay with the same woman for purely sexual reasons (men want diversity in the long run). Men usually stay with the same woman for emotional reasons, including a desire to appease her need for security as his only romantic partner.

My personal experience has been as follows. I have been with numerous Thai women physically. They do provide a different sexual experience, as compared to Western women (both Caucasian and Asians who are culturally Westernized). For men that are new to this unique experience, it can be subjectively seen as “better”. Thai women would also be found subjectively “better” than white women, for the men with an Asian or petite preference. I fall into the second category and being with a Thai woman is more enjoyable than what I’ve felt with a farang girl. However, being with a farang girl isn’t bad at all. I enjoyed it completely. It’s just that I liked the smaller, Thai type bodies more. My preference for Thais is purely subjective. There is no quantitative or objective measure that makes a Thai better than a farang or a Hispanic woman.

It feels great, because of my personal tastes, to hold a Thai woman when I sleep. Thai girls seem to generate a lot of body heat and are literally hot in bed. Their small body sizes, in general, are able to purvey innocence and femininity very well. They can play on these sexual traits quite well, though my experience has been it is just a cultural veneer. They are just as independent and stubborn as a farang woman could be.

In the end, though I like the softer attitude and more feminine personae of Thai women, I know that it is just a different way for Asian women to seek their self-interests. I truly enjoy the sweet attitude of a Thai girl (when she isn’t angry) and her sometimes attentive nature, but I see she is just as motivated as a farang girl to build a career, make money, and take care of herself.

Would I go back to farang women? No way. However, it’s because I like Thais better, not because they are actually better than farangs or Western women.

For the stories I’ve read on Stickman’s site, in which ex sex tourists talk about their successful relationships with bargirls that have turned into wives, there are a few common themes that actually point to a low success rate for the majority of such relationships. First, a number of the “success stories” are of a low or non-existent age gap, which implies less of a generational difference in lifestyle and social interests. Second, many of the success stories involve a bargirl forming a relationship with a sex tourists who was NEVER her customer, and vice-versa. She was never a hooker with him, though her job was a hooker. That’s a very important distinction. She has never related to him as a walking ATM and he has never seen her as a whore. Third, the writers of these success stories, who have experienced the difficulties of dealing with an ex-bargirl as a romantic partner, often make disclaimers such as “it can happen, but…”

Those disclaimers indicate the benefit of a lower age gap (theme one above) and of not being seen as a customer/revenue source by the Thai girl (theme two above). It is more difficult for a sex tourist to form a real relationship with a Thai prostitute, because more often than not the girl doesn’t really see the guy as anything more than a customer and never really wants to. Often the sex tourists continues to see the girl as primarily his sexual provider, and then as he gets emotionally attached, as his emotional provider in the girlfriend role. He behaves like he can buy her emotions with his money (allowance, family support, etc.) yet becomes shocked when it becomes clear those emotions are fake.

To summarize, Thai women are not better than Western women on anything more than the personal tastes of the men we are dealing with. And just because Thai women are the preferred choice for a Western guy does not mean a Thai hooker is a better choice for a girlfriend or wife than a nice Western girl. Don’t confuse someone’s culture or race (Thai or Western) with their occupation (prostitute or something else). How would you like to be told that a Thai beggar is better than a farang doctor? And that the beggar is more respectable just because he is Thai?

Stickman says:

Nice thoughts, would be interesting to hear what others think.

nana plaza