Stickman's guide to Bangkok Readers' Submissions
Stick That Pointing Finger Up Your Ass
By Caveman
The purpose of this submission is to weigh in on some of the BS I have been reading in the Readers Submissions lately regarding the morality of soliciting bargirls. Especially in need of a reply is the rant “The Legacy” by “Stacky”, and also “Darwin in Bangkok”, both recently posted. First, let me say that I respect the opinions put forth and applaud the authors for having the gonads to express their opinions. Good reading, and really intriguing, but I happen to have an opposing point of view. Sorry if I offend, but if you want to make an omelet, you’ve gotta’ break a few eggs.
Of course it is immoral to solicit sex in any place, be it Cambodia or wherever, with women who have REALLY been FORCED into the paid-for-sex industry against their will. However, in Thailand, the bargirls have elected this as their profession. It puzzles me how some people believe that the fact that the bargirls’ family having COERCED them into the business equates to their being forced. This does not compute. Yes, family ties in Thailand are strong, and even stronger than those in the West, but women in Thailand are not forced into the industry. I have never met one who was. Even if the family threatens to excommunicate the poor wench, she can still refuse. Certainly many if not most of the ladies who are there have some real hard luck stories on why they made the decision to work bar. Hearing these stories can really make you think that the ladies had no better alternative. Hell, who knows, I might make the same decision if I were in their shoes. But there are always alternatives to selling your body. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not judging them (or at least not as harshly as this may come across), but there are always alternatives. There are countless young Thai ladies out there with a lot of initiative who are quite willing to work at jobs that pay a paltry 4K baht a month because they can thereby keep their dignity. It’s not an easy life, but it’s a life. Funny enough, these young ladies often live quite happy lives despite their meager salaries (Thais can be happy in spite of almost anything; hence my admiration for them). Manage your money well enough, and you can make ends meet.
Stacky: If you are feeling a sense of guilt for soliciting bargirls, then that is your business and maybe you should refrain. And yes, maybe you should feel guilty if you had sex with a woman who weighs half of what you do. You could well have crushed the poor wench. From reading your piece, it appears that your sense of guilt derives mainly from the fact that you believe you are contributing to an industry and therefore propagating it, and therefore in some perverted way actually causing it to exist. As mentioned above, Thai bargirls are not forced into the business. They are there because they want to be there and because they believe that the rewards outweigh the detractors. There must always be an element of personal responsibility in any free market society like Thailand. These women have every right to do with their bodies as they please. Who the fuck are you (or I) to tell them otherwise? It’s none of our business. And since Noi, or Pim, or Nut have elected this occupation, I feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever in patronizing them. We are both 2 consenting adults. Big Brother: get the fuck out of my face. What goes on between 2 consenting adults is nobody else’s business. If I am compensating her for her company and she is content with things, then I can conclude that the arrangement is mutually beneficial. Certainly there are punters out there who mistreat the ladies or fail to adequately compensate them for their services. A pox on them for sure, and may they rot in Hell or a Thai prison. But for the majority of punters out there who engage in a bit of sanuk with a Thai lady of the night, I can see no immorality in this. To think otherwise is ridiculous, because this is the exact type of thinking in the US that causes people to feel guilt about things for which they hold no real responsibility. Those in positions of power often (mis)use the guilt of others in order to get something out of them and/or control them (hence the origin of organized religion). Militant vegetarians use the same pretzel logic against those who eat meat. In their distorted, pecker-headed minds, you are guilty of mistreating animals if you buy meat because you are propagating the “evils” of the meat industry. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Their heads are made of the lettuce they subsist on. While I would never condone the torture or mistreatment of an animal, if animals shouldn’t be eaten, then why are they made of meat? Screw you, I’m heading to the BBQ! Make mine rare, so the blood can drip down my arms as I tear into the tasty flesh.
There is another side of this morality BS which needs to be discussed in this forum (and we never should forget that Stick is THE MAN for providing us with such an excellent forum for discussing our interests here ‘under one tent’, as Dana eloquently puts it). How about the married man who fucks bargirls? Is he moral? Many will disagree with me here, and so be it. Doesn’t matter what your religion is or if you have none. I don’t give a rat’s ass if you are Asian, American, Brit, Oz....it makes no difference. If you are fucking another woman without your wife’s knowledge, that is immoral. How can it not be? Yes, I have many friends who do this, and we can still be really excellent drinking buddies and I would never approach them personally about their actions: it’s none of my business and it’s their life to do with as they see fit. On some level, these guys have lost something and are therefore not to be completely trusted. And don’t give me some half-baked garbage about Darwin in BKK. If you can’t elevate yourself above a fucking chimpanzee, then put your ass in a zoo. And don’t rationalize by telling me about the 98% similar DNA. “A few thousand years of civilization doesn't trump hundreds of millions of years of evolution. Hence, many of us men, most of us probably, cheat on our spouses.” This is the biggest crock of shit justification you could offer. What I will say is that those with NO INTEGRITY will justify their actions any way they can. If you’re hell-bent on fucking bargirls behind the back of your wife, there’s no limit to the BS you’ll shovel to justify it. “It’s just part of being male.” I’m sorry, my friend, but many men out there are not as morally bankrupt as you are. What could be worse and more morally repugnant than violating the most sacred vow that you will EVER make in your entire miserable life (the wedding vow)? This vow is the most meaningful thing you will ever say, and constitutes the biggest commitment to the most important person you will ever meet in your earthly existence. This is the woman you are taking to be your life’s partner. If your life is that meaningless and you are so shallow and your word so cheap, how can you look yourself in the mirror each day and scrape the hair off your nasty mug? You fuck bargirls because you “had the opportunity”? Yes, I understand how readily available bargirl sex is in Thailand, you’ve got that right. You know how zookeepeers get animals to reproduce? They put them in the same cage. Hey, I have no illusions about who or what I am (“a man’s gotta’ know his limitations”....Clint Eastwood from “Dirty Harry”), and I certainly don’t think I’m better than most people out there, but don’t equate me with your run-of-the-mill adulterer. And speaking of hypocrisy, I would venture to guess that most men who cheat on their wives with bargirls would feel devastated if their ladies cheated on them, be it with a male gigolo or the guy next door. What if the same type of industry was available for your wife in Thailand, so that there was a “naughty nightlife industry”, but one that catered to ladies, with men that were available for women? Would it be OK if your wife availed herself? Picture your wife enthusiastically giving a 30-minute long BJ to another man, and then maybe even “finishing” things. You wouldn’t have a problem with her giving you some tongue in your mouth after this, would you? Then she comes home and cooks you dinner, the whole while daydreaming of how much she enjoyed her gobbling episode. That OK with you?
“How many readers would be prepared to talk to anyone back home, and not just a hand selected audience, about their exploits in Thailand?” (another quote from the piece). If this sentence is supposed to make me think that just because I don’t share the graphic details of my jaunts to Thailand with all and sundry that I’m thereby admitting that I’m engaging in something immoral - WRONG again. The fact is that familiarity breeds contempt, and we’re talking about familiarity of any kind. Breeds contempt and often jealousy. What I do in Thailand or anywhere else is nobody’s fucking bees wax. Only an idiot would trumpet his Thailand adventures to those back home, especially in a church. Your argument is not valid. The fact is that many people WOULD judge you harshly if they knew certain details of your life, but not necessarily through any fault of your own. Why make your life any more difficult than you need to, unless you’re an idiot? If you are an idiot, you probably can’t help yourself.
“How many girls grow up, wanting to go to university, to become a nurse or teacher? Sounds just like home doesn’t it. How many don’t because they fall pregnant with no family/government support.” (another quote from the subject piece). How can a lady “fall pregnant”? Check me if I’m asleep at the wheel, but these ladies need to make a CONSCIOUS DECISION to spread their legs for some irresponsible douchebag that wants to get his nuts off. Don’t try to make me feel guilty about the fact that some Thai lady can’t control her own libido and irresponsibly copulates without the financial means of raising the child. Oh, and the government isn’t there to dole out tax money that came from THE SWEAT OF MY FUCKING BROW and hand it to this young degenerate as a reward for her ignorance and irresponsibility? Bravo to Thailand! You are once again preaching crap that is completely contrary to the precepts of personal responsibility. You should get together and have a beer with Hilary Clinton. You both evidently believe that losers are always losers because the evil society has somehow victimized them. Society, whether in Thailand or anywhere else, owes nobody anything. We all have our cross to bear. Get up off your dead ass and go to work, or starve if you prefer. It’s a cruel world and we must all live by its rules. “Falls pregnant”?? Gimme’ a break. Where’d you get your lobotome?
“How many girls grow up to be a teacher only to see their pupils put their English skills to use in Phuket and earning more than she does. What message does that send to the other good hard working girls? While you are fucking the girl, you are fucking around with the moral values of her ex class mates and possibly their teacher. Can you live with this?” Another quote from the subject piece, and more Hilary Clinton-type crap. Thai ladies do not all have the same values. Some of them actually have integrity and virtue and would not, under any circumstances, consider selling their bodies, no matter what the temptation. Those that do make the choice of their own volition. And if they’re lucky, they’ll be barfined and maybe even “rescued” by their knight in shining armor.
Prostitution is probably as old as mankind. The farang naughty nightlife in Thailand has some twists that make it rather unique, especially when you’re talking about (some) Thai bargirls that do not even discuss money and pretty much leave it up to you on how you want to compensate them for their company. As far as guilt, if there should be any guilt at all, it should be on the part of the bargirl, who has made the adult decision to sell her body to put bread on the table. I agree that a truly loving family would never coerce their daughter to do such a thing in the first place, but I refuse to feel guilty about this. It is not of my doing.
Another quote: “Feeling how I do, I wonder why I now feel justified to write this piece. To make me feel better? Being of good Christian upbringing maybe, wanting to confess all and purify my soul.” Good luck with your Christianity and purifying your soul. But my soul is my own. If there is really a “St. Peter’s Gate”, I’m the one that has to stand there and answer for my deeds. I have no problems and am even proud with the way I’ve treated the Thai bargirls I’ve been with. To quote my man Jimi Hendrix: “I’m the one that’s gotta’ die when it’s time for me to die; so let me live my life the way I want to.”
Stickman's thoughts:
Once again, I find myself nodding in agreement with almost all of this. But then Caveman and I have a very similar outlook on life and very similar political leanings.
Thailand Hotels Bangkok Hotels Phuket Hotels Pattaya Hotels Hua Hin Hotels farangs.com The author of this piece can be contacted at: cromagnon9669@yahoo.com
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